FreeBSD wiki whine

ShelLuser

Son of Beastie

Thanks: 1,586
Messages: 3,440

#1
It is very difficult to take this seriously, this is not the standard I kind of expected:

1533848938373.png


Still going to push through to try and get an account because I think I can do a lot of good here. But I wil be honest: this de-motivates pretty badly.
 

xtremae

Member

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Messages: 25

#3
For anything other than drive-by contributions, i think the current implementation is quite common and certainly preferable.
Forum accounts should be separate from infra.
 
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ShelLuser

ShelLuser

Son of Beastie

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#4
I think 2 people seriously miss the point here.

Don't you guys notice anything weird about my screenshot up there? :-/
 

sidetone

Aspiring Daemon

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Messages: 976

#5
Don't you guys notice anything weird about my screenshot up there? :-/
The Green lock is good, firstname lastname is ok, because it's an example to use two words.

The reCaptcha: version 1 is shut down. Direct site owners go to ...

They've asked for editing permissions to the Wiki on the FreeBSD-Doc mailing list. They've mentioned the captcha was broken, and it told them to ask there.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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Messages: 2,868

#7
The FreeBSD.org site is very antiquated in its web presentation, both design-wise and frontend code-wise. A while back, I offered to look into fixing that up but was told the backend code that generates the HTML is, for the lack of a word that wasn't used, difficult to change. I tried a CSS-only solution to the presentation but it's a mess of a HTML document structure. I wasn't willing to do that much work for free.

Note the word "wasn't". News by the end of the month.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

Thanks: 635
Messages: 1,203

#9
The FreeBSD.org site is very antiquated in its web presentation, both design-wise and frontend code-wise. A while back, I offered to look into fixing that up but was told the backend code that generates the HTML is, for the lack of a word that wasn't used, difficult to change. I tried a CSS-only solution to the presentation but it's a mess of a HTML document structure.
A Professional website that is home to a Professional Operating System should not have a website that is anything less. Let alone one with download links that overlap or does not scale down to size properly. It does not convey professionalism.

For someone new to FreeBSD I would speculate their first thought would be "If their website is in this condition, can the OS be any better?"

The Debian website scales down correctly without links overlapping. I would be embarrassed and appalled that mine didn't and make it a top priority.

I have already made site recommendations, so I'll make another one and recommend getting rid of whatever program you're using to generate your markup and hire someone professional, perhaps drhowarddrfine, to do it right. So it is valid code, too. It fails now.

It is the FreeBSD 25th Anniversary. What better time to do it, or worse time to look bad?
 

Datapanic

Well-Known Member

Thanks: 153
Messages: 296

#10
I run a couple websites that I setup with recaptcha v1 and before recaptcha v2 even existed and it was painful to migrate the authentication pages to recaptcha 2 but not impossible, especially since there was about 18 months to do it in.
No excuse for the FreeBSD wiki site to be such a piece of crap.
Pure laziness.
 

Datapanic

Well-Known Member

Thanks: 153
Messages: 296

#13
Okay Doc, then what do you call it when warning emails from Google sent to registered users of v1 about v1 coming to an end at least 6 months and probably a year before it actually ended back in March 2018? Blow it off until it doesn't work anymore is bad programmer attitude. I'll change my words. Scratch Laziness, subject the negli___ word.
 

reddy

Member

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Messages: 20

#15
The FreeBSD.org site is very antiquated in its web presentation, both design-wise and frontend code-wise. A while back, I offered to look into fixing that up but was told the backend code that generates the HTML is, for the lack of a word that wasn't used, difficult to change. I tried a CSS-only solution to the presentation but it's a mess of a HTML document structure. I wasn't willing to do that much work for free.

Note the word "wasn't". News by the end of the month.
A Professional website that is home to a Professional Operating System should not have a website that is anything less. Let alone one with download links that overlap or does not scale down to size properly. It does not convey professionalism.

For someone new to FreeBSD I would speculate their first thought would be "If their website is in this condition, can the OS be any better?"

The Debian website scales down correctly without links overlapping. I would be embarrassed and appalled that mine didn't and make it a top priority.

I have already made site recommendations, so I'll make another one and recommend getting rid of whatever program you're using to generate your markup and hire someone professional, perhaps drhowarddrfine, to do it right. So it is valid code, too. It fails now.

It is the FreeBSD 25th Anniversary. What better time to do it, or worse time to look bad?
Just my two cents but I personally enjoy the design of the FreeBSD website and even found it refreshing and professional. I think the design nicely supports the positioning and the DNA of the project. It conveyed me the spirit of FreeBSD and kind of built strong emotional rapport from day 1. I don't think the FreeBSD website should be like the one of Red Hat or like the one of the other guy just for the sake of it. To me the website is clean and looks just fine, it is functional and is good art (good proportions / ergonomics + it builds the right kind of rapport).

As far as the display issues are concerned, at least on my smartphone the website is just zoomed out, it doesn't attempt to go responsive so I don't see any display problem.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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#16

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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#18
To me the website is clean and looks just fine, it is functional and is good art (good proportions / ergonomics + it builds the right kind of rapport).
And beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, thus the problem with defining what looks good when it comes to art. However, when one gets into the technical considerations, there is no opinion involved. The document layout is poor and inconsistent which makes changes difficult and hard to manage. The site declares itself as being served as XHTML yet serves the pages as HTML. Not being responsive--actually adaptive--to your device is an issue not a feature as it's almost unreadable on my phone.

It was someone in the FreeBSD organization itself that broached the topic on here of helping make the site look better which is why I tried to get involved. The site was built long ago by people not well versed in HTML document structure and that's why it's in the state it's in now.
 

Swifty

New Member

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Messages: 18

#19
We're talking about an OS that doesn't come with a DE [and imo, shouldn't]. What expectations do you have when it comes the that website? I do find the captcha thing bothersome.
It does tell me that their website isn't really a priority. I didn't get FreeBSD because their website. It isn't a strech for some, to wonder if they take shortcuts behind their kernel. Wrong, though they'd be.
 

Phishfry

Son of Beastie

Thanks: 1,059
Messages: 3,100

#20
More important to me is the fact that most FreeBSD ARM Wiki's have outdated information.

The FreeBSD manual is the same way. Almost every device driver seems like you must compile in xxxx option.
But in reality it is already supported by kernel options.
So you are sending people on a wild goose chase for something un-needed.
For example Chelsio cxgbe(4) driver does not need to be compiled in to work. Its already in GENERIC.
So the whole synopsis is not very concise. You must go look at GENERIC kernconf to see if you need to compile.
That or run kldstat.

Outdated information is the only problem I see with FreeBSD wiki's.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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#21
It does tell me that their website isn't really a priority. I didn't get FreeBSD because their website. It isn't a strech for some, to wonder if they take shortcuts behind their kernel.
Why, that almost sounds like what I speculated people new to FreeBSD would think in my post...

For someone new to FreeBSD I would speculate their first thought would be "If their website is in this condition, can the OS be any better?"
Must be something to that.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

Thanks: 635
Messages: 1,203

#23
The site declares itself as being served as XHTML yet serves the pages as HTML. Not being responsive--actually adaptive--to your device is an issue not a feature as it's almost unreadable on my phone.

It was someone in the FreeBSD organization itself that broached the topic on here of helping make the site look better which is why I tried to get involved. The site was built long ago by people not well versed in HTML document structure and that's why it's in the state it's in now.
Wonder of wonders... I believe I even went as far as to offer a solution to that problem...

I have already made site recommendations, so I'll make another one and recommend getting rid of whatever program you're using to generate your markup and hire someone professional, perhaps drhowarddrfine, to do it right. So it is valid code, too. It fails now.
First Digital Pimp, now Phone Psychic. Doors just keep opening for me. :p
 
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ShelLuser

ShelLuser

Son of Beastie

Thanks: 1,586
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#24
Thing is.. sometimes it's a little frustrating for me because I know I can do a lot of good here, but I don't always have the time (or motivation) to push through. I can understand the specific XML format for the documentation and think to have found a possible solution for this.

But having to dig for instructions to circumvent this (I did notice them eventually) feels sloppy and, sorry to say, demotivates. It feels as if no one could be bothered to change the instructions to match the current situation and that's no good IMO.

See.. maybe I am looking too much into this but what if... many people did try to update it and their changes got shot down by the powers that be? A scenario I'm also keeping into the back of my head.

And then you quickly fall into a situation where you'd rather spend your time posting a guide on the forums than studying how you might be able to directly help the documentation project, at least that's how it went for me.

I still think there is a lot of damage being done to possible potential additions here. Because the current situation is even worse:

login.jpg


Please login to access the page which allows you to create a new account?

And I thought Windows was bad when it complained that it didn't have enough free space to delete some files.

How do you expect anyone to take this stuff seriously like this?
 
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