Is there demand for a "FreeBSD Kommunity Edition"?

  • Yes, sure

    Votes: 13 16.5%
  • Likely

    Votes: 6 7.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 8 10.1%
  • Doubtfully

    Votes: 9 11.4%
  • No

    Votes: 35 44.3%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 8 10.1%

  • Total voters
    79

Mjölnir

Daemon

Reaction score: 1,511
Messages: 2,114

Let's just brainstorm...
  • What would you expect a "FreeBSD Kommunity Edition" to be/offer?
  • What would you like it to be/offer?
  • Is there demand for such a thing?
  • Would you like to see a *BSD Kommunity Edition?
  • What is missing or should be better in base FreeBSD / in the KDE ports?
  • Add your topic...
Any reasonable feedback is welcome!
 

Argentum

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 299
Messages: 626

Let's just brainstorm...
  • What would you expect a "FreeBSD Kommunity Edition" to be/offer?
  • What would you like it to be/offer?
  • Is there demand for such a thing?
  • Would you like to see a *BSD Kommunity Edition?
  • What is missing or should be better in base FreeBSD / in the KDE ports?
  • Add your topic...
Any reasonable feedback is welcome!
What do you mean by that? What is it and what does it include?
 

Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 623
Messages: 733

Unfortunately KDE is Linux upstream, and I'm not very fond of the Qt Company's recent direction with the toolkit either. The best that could be done is to recruit more maintainers.
 
OP
Mjölnir

Mjölnir

Daemon

Reaction score: 1,511
Messages: 2,114

What do you mean by that? What is it and what does it include?
It's a fantasy. It does not exist -- yet? I mean exactly what I wrote. If such thing existed, would you expect you can download a FreeBSD Kommunity Edition to an USB thumb drive to stick it into your laptop or tablet, and that boots and/or installs? Would you like that? Would you expect/like a fbsd-kommunity-edition in the ports(7) tree? If that thing existed, what would you expect/like it to offer? What should such a thing have to be beneficial, that's is not already available?

You're an experienced wizzard, but for sure you know other (non-nerd) people. Some of them are unhappy with Win/Mac/L*x, maybe some more with their Mac. You may also look at the tags I added to this thread. I'm not going to quick-hack a premature solution of what I think it could be, without getting some thoughts of others 1st. Maybe this will never exist, but serve as an umbrella, a scratchpad for brainstorming, where small projects to improve some KDE ports (and their integration with *BSD) spin off.
 

wolffnx

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 231
Messages: 678

mjollnir you mean create a FreeBSD image with a fully functional Kde desktop?
the idea is not bad,for the "normal" user
I dont use Kde but maybe is atractive to new users

but think that someone over the months..years? has to mantain and keep up to date
the ports/packages of Kde on FreeBSD , that is a lot of time and effort
 

Factor

Member

Reaction score: 29
Messages: 41

So new here and saw this and had to post.
  • What would you expect a "FreeBSD Community Edition" to be/offer? Isn't it already a community edition. It is already Free, and maintained.
  • What would you like it to be/offer? I am not sure what it does not already offer.
  • Is there demand for such a thing? Based on the questions so far not for me no.
  • Would you like to see a *BSD Community Edition? Is this a way of asking do we want a desktop gui version?
  • What is missing or should be better in base FreeBSD / in the KDE ports? Not really sure
  • Add your topic...
I would like to say I am so glad I found FreeBSD. I have been working on Linux for 3 decades. I knew of FreeBSD but never really tried it until a few months ago. I have been blown away by it. I think I would say what might be missing is more evangelism, mostly because I wish I would have tried this in my 20s. :)

I use a Mac and MX linux both are fine for the Desktop. I hope you all are well.
 

kpedersen

Son of Beastie

Reaction score: 2,171
Messages: 3,008

We have discussed similar in a previous thread so I won't ramble on with my views on "user friendly" FreeBSD meta-distros.

Possibly Kommunity would be a slightly problematic name. I know many companies looking for workstations / thinclients steer away from community editions of things because they see them as freemium or restricted in some way potentially with hidden costs. Though not necessarily your target audience, they probably shouldn't risk being turned away just because of a name.

If you are hardset on KDE and like the 'K' may I recommend:

FreeBSD kpedersen Edition

Yes, a little narcissistic but how many people can say they have a FreeBSD meta-distro named after them? ;)
 

bookwormep

Well-Known Member

Reaction score: 230
Messages: 360

I like KDE, when I used it many years ago. If there are people enthusiastic for it, and have time to volunteer, it seems like a reasonable task to me.
 

ppbitb

New Member

Reaction score: 2
Messages: 3

Hi, here is some (hopefully) reasonable feedback:

- I would assume this forum is one of the best places to find people that are primarily FreeBSD users, secondarily KDE users. Characteristically, these users might not have any reservation with configuring/tweaking/debugging their FreeBSD systems.
- What about users that primarily want an easy way to install and administrate a KDE desktop? I think that's a different group with small overlap. Are those the users you are interested in? Maybe they are to be found on Linux oriented forums and communities?
- Therefore, I am not sure this poll would yield definitive results.

(This is my first post of the forum. I have lurked since roughly November. On the desktop side I have used Linux, Mac and lately Windows (professional laptop). I have my own FreeBSD desktop (with windowmaker) since November. On the server side, I have and continue to administer very small and simple Linux web/db servers. )
 

Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 623
Messages: 733

With all due respect to the project; it really has terrible means of crowdsourcing potential contributors. The Wiki is just embarrassing, as an example.
 

Hawk

Member

Reaction score: 7
Messages: 47

As a semi-pro user... well okay, more like teeball-little league... I don't see this as a productive project. I HAVE come across a few Linux users that indicated they wanted to try FreeBSD, but if they've used Linux already they're a large step ahead of when I started. A simple automagic installer shouldn't hold them back. As for *real* beginners (as in: those that know even less than this caveman), it's a roll of the dice on what *nix system they opt for (by chance in '05 I chose FreeBSD).

I hate to fathom what will happen when I run across a problem, need an answer and the FreeBSD forums turns into a Linux forum where there's 1337 answers to one question and they're not even gathering information before they answer.

Just MHO.
 

Hakaba

Active Member

Reaction score: 126
Messages: 243

My first reactions n is 'Why KDE ?'
I use (and love) DWM...
I answered 'I don't know'.

A "prepared Desktop" FreeBSD is IMHO a good idea, but not to impose a DE or WM. The main difficulty when I install FreeBSD on desktop is the quantity of things to handle (drivers, WiFi, graphics, keyboard config, media and special keys, ...
I was a FuryBSD user, not to use XFCE, gnome or KDE (I install DWM on it) but because with the current FreeBSD installer, I have to handle to much subject in the same time.
Choosing the wm and install it is the final piece of the puzzle, easy to place.

So if there is an effort to a desktop version of FreeBSD, an 'installer' like the FreeBSD one is my request (list all things to do, get drivers, help in X11 configuration, show the lack of compatibility, ... )
A simple cli installer with steps will be sufficient for me.
 

vigole

Daemon

Reaction score: 1,568
Messages: 1,399

To expect: No. It's very unlikely. I'm not a Core/Committer member,
but hypothetically, I prefer/push/vote for embedded systems, rather than K/Desktop.
To offer: CURRENT + Live USB + persistence storage.
Demand: Certainly. Curious Normal/Desktop Linux/Windows users.
Like to see: Not personally, but I'll test/PR it.
Missing/suggestion: No.
 

matt_k

Member

Reaction score: 82
Messages: 83

It's a fantasy. It does not exist -- yet? I mean exactly what I wrote. If such thing existed, would you expect you can download a FreeBSD Kommunity Edition to an USB thumb drive to stick it into your laptop or tablet, and that boots and/or installs? Would you like that? Would you expect/like a fbsd-kommunity-edition in the ports(7) tree? If that thing existed, what would you expect/like it to offer? What should such a thing have to be beneficial, that's is not already available?

You're an experienced wizzard, but for sure you know other (non-nerd) people. Some of them are unhappy with Win/Mac/L*x, maybe some more with their Mac. You may also look at the tags I added to this thread. I'm not going to quick-hack a premature solution of what I think it could be, without getting some thoughts of others 1st. Maybe this will never exist, but serve as an umbrella, a scratchpad for brainstorming, where small projects to improve some KDE ports (and their integration with *BSD) spin off.
I don't know what exactly the word "Kommunity" means. Is it a KDE-preinstalled-version of FreeBSD? If that's the case, then maybe that's exactly what keeps away those few interested in a FreeBSD desktop. I know at least one person, who was put away by FreeBSD being too bare-bones and opted for FuryBSD instead (which died in the meantime and so he returned to linux). I don't understand this attitude, because FreeBSD is really easy to configure a desktop on (provided you have compatible HW), but hey, people are different.
If FreeBSD-Kommunity-edition means, that there will be something like an installer option "Install with KDE desktop", then probably it would find it's use. Or even maybe if there is a port "fbsd-kommunity-edition", which you just pkg install and it will do everything necessary automagically, like install proper graphics drivers as a dependency, install xorg, kde, dbus, put appropriate entries in loader.conf, rc.conf, install some fonts, icons, etc, I think that it may be beneficial.
I don't understand the amount of work this would require, thou, I am no programmer and don't know much about KDE portability to FreeBSD, so take my opinion as a clueless-user-only opinion.
 

Argentum

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 299
Messages: 626

It's a fantasy. It does not exist -- yet? I mean exactly what I wrote. If such thing existed, would you expect you can download a FreeBSD Kommunity Edition to an USB thumb drive to stick it into your laptop or tablet, and that boots and/or installs? Would you like that? Would you expect/like a fbsd-kommunity-edition in the ports(7) tree? If that thing existed, what would you expect/like it to offer? What should such a thing have to be beneficial, that's is not already available?

You're an experienced wizzard, but for sure you know other (non-nerd) people. Some of them are unhappy with Win/Mac/L*x, maybe some more with their Mac. You may also look at the tags I added to this thread. I'm not going to quick-hack a premature solution of what I think it could be, without getting some thoughts of others 1st. Maybe this will never exist, but serve as an umbrella, a scratchpad for brainstorming, where small projects to improve some KDE ports (and their integration with *BSD) spin off.
I did not mean to criticize, I was just asking. Now I understand that 'K' in Kommunity means KDE. I think for beginners it would be great, however maybe targeting a little bit too much in one direction. What about other window managers?
 

Factor

Member

Reaction score: 29
Messages: 41

If such thing existed, would you expect you can download a FreeBSD Kommunity Edition to an USB thumb drive to stick it into your laptop or tablet, and that boots and/or installs?
Sorry my feedback wasn't to valuable. I will keep trying. Yes for sure. If you are going to appeal to the masses. Easy, lots of choices, and automatic come to mine. Easy is the main word. If they cant download it stick it in the side of any modern 2015 to 2021 laptop then it's not "easy" and they are gone. This is why the masses dont have a FreeBSD desktop now it is really that simple.
Would you like that?
Not with just KDE. Needs at least 3 to choose from other choices would be XFCE, Mate, and KDE.
Would you expect/like a fbsd-kommunity-edition in the ports(7) tree?
No I would expect it to be a totally separately maintained item. Like Ghost, Midnight and others. It can use the ports tree. Also if you mean it would be a fancied up version of the KDE port I guess that would be ok or maybe there isn't a KDE port yet? I dont know.
Some of them are unhappy with Win/Mac/L*x, maybe some more with their Mac.
Not sure what this means. I know not one person that is in the "Herd not a Nerd" group that cares about windows versus mac versus linux. All they know is it has to be easy and cheap. If you can't buy it at amazon, walmart, enter the big store of choice here it doesn't exist. Nerds like us care sure, my sister, mother, neighbor they all have Windoze. FreeBSD, Linux don't exist to them. Most people say Mac we know Mac but it is expensive.

small projects to improve some KDE ports (and their integration with *BSD) spin off.
Wouldn't that have to be done at the KDE project or here within FreeBSD.
 

Watitsthis

Member

Reaction score: 15
Messages: 27

Here are my 2 cents:

Needs to have options for an install GUI environment, but I like window managers so fluxbox or even twm option? ... Install drivers automatically with hardware found sysctl -a
 

mcit

New Member

Reaction score: 10
Messages: 5

If such thing existed, would you expect you can download a FreeBSD Kommunity Edition to an USB thumb drive to stick it into your laptop or tablet, and that boots and/or installs?
What I would expect is that after booting, it actually worked - on a reasonable range of semi-recent laptops at least. Which is a matter of hardware support before details like KDE. Many projects offered easier installs and pre-configured desktops and still went nowhere. Installing a FreeBSD desktop isn't difficult when hardware is supported. But even a 3 years old Thinkpad isn't a safe bet in terms of hardware support. Things like unreliable standby/resume/hibernate even after trying all tweaks from handbook/wiki/..., less than half battery life due primarily to lack of support for powering down the discrete GPU in laptops with Nvidia optimus, even manually. Possibly other things if I hadn't given up at that point.

It's a matter of priorities and it's reasonable that those who contribute their own effort do so on what they care for, mobile devices being even lower priority than GUI per se.
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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Messages: 2,977

Where did I put my cookie cutter? Because I want my desktop to look like everyone's. Only the wallpaper will be different and not if I can find theirs.

And by golly, if KDE thinks I need it for my desktop then who am I to make up my own mind what 3rd party programs I use? If I go against the flow of the flock that would be sedition! There would be black sheep stew on the menu fer sure.

But I'm baaad. I'm going to cat-flip the fence and flee for FreeBSD and x11-wm/fluxbox.

Oh, sorry. I had a Flashback. :rolleyes:
 

Snurg

Daemon

Reaction score: 595
Messages: 1,349

Things like unreliable standby/resume/hibernate even after trying all tweaks from handbook/wiki/...,
less than half battery life due primarily to lack of support for powering down the discrete GPU in laptops with Nvidia optimus, even manually.

It's a matter of priorities and it's reasonable that those who contribute their own effort do so on what they care for, mobile devices being even lower priority than GUI per se.
Actually there is something to do in that direction.
One thing I do not understand is that FreeBSD KDE offers suspend/hibernate, but the former is broken due other things (but often can be worked around), and the latter is not implemented at all (but can be made work on UEFI systems according to an excellent HOWTO).
This leads to much frustration, with users not understanding why it fails and then giving up on FreeBSD.
So this could be an example of community-based improvement.


Regarding the Nvidia Optimus problem, maybe there is a possibility to make a small driver, just for deactivating it. Maybe this could be integrated in the i915 driver?
 

Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 623
Messages: 733

After doing a fresh install of FreeBSD/KDE on my T480; there's a lot hardware probe/setup improvements to be had in FreeBSD, whilst integration improvements to be had on the KDE side. Regarding "Kommunity" edition of FreeBSD, I recommend contributing and promoting the FreeBSD/KDE Initiative. That's really what the project is for; community collaboration. In terms of spitting out an ISO for others to use, someone in that initiative should do it.

Why there's no WiFi/Bluetooth/ACPI hardware probe and setup in bsdinstall is beyond me. That'll definitely help with the experience of transition to FreeBSD.
 
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