FreeBSD and modern hardware

noodlefling

noodlefling

I'm looking to purchase a new server-grade Dell, and I was curious to know if I should be expecting any trouble if I don't go for the bleeding edge models. I've never run into problems in the past, but FreeBSD versions are flying much faster than before and I see a few things have been rebuilt from the ground up.

Specifically, I am wondering about LTO tape drives (is there a version of LTO I should refrain from exceeding?) and basic mirrored RAID systems. I don't see a lot of complaints, so it doesn't look like I should run into many problems with basic hardware, but then again, not everyone is running a server.
 
I am running a Supermicro shop (much bigger bang for a buck and I think much better hardware than Dell or HP) but I have run OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD, and FreeBSD on Dell hardware and it runs just fine. If you post technical specifications we can be of more help. I have never used LTO tape drives so I can't help you with it. What do you mean by basic mirrored RAID? Do you mean hardware or software RAID 1 or mirror ZFS? We typically use LSI cards but ARCO RAID cards are really very well supported on all flavours of BSD. I have FreeBSD running with ZFS on the top of LSI HBA and I have FreeBSD configured as RAID 6 with LSI cards.
 
Sadly, we are locked in to Dell hardware.

By "basic mirrored", I suppose I mean RAID 1. We don't care about speed, only reliability. It'd be a Dell "PowerEdge", so the RAID controller is a "PERC". I have a number of Dells using earlier PERC controllers and they all work fine, but they are plenty old now.

We don't have specific hardware nailed down yet. Mine is more of a general question of: "is it fair to assume that relatively new, but not top-of-the-line Dell hardware is compatible with FreeBSD, as it has been in the past?" No guarantees, obviously, but is it a crazy thought to buy an over-priced server and expect it all to work? We care more about the on-site 24-hour warranty than hardware or cost efficiency.

I know a lot of USB devices are hit and miss, but we've never had trouble with basic server stuff before. I'm just wondering if we got lucky or if FreeBSD is still pretty good with this kind of thing.
 
There are at least four ways to do RAID 1 on FreeBSD:
  1. gmirror(8), software through FreeBSD;
  2. ZFS mirror, software through FreeBSD;
  3. motherboard RAID, supported by graid(8);
  4. genuine RAID controller.
The first two can use disks that are attached to a RAID controller (JBOD). Arguably, the first two have most or all of the advantages of a hardware RAID system without being tied to a single brand or model of controller. ZFS in particular might provide more features or performance than hardware RAID. It does like lots of memory, but that's not usually a problem with server systems.

Motherboard RAID is supported by graid(8), but I would strongly prefer a gmirror(8) setup over it.

Genuine hardware RAID controllers can work well. The metadata layout on the disks might tie them to a particular brand or model of controller, not as big a deal when a controller fails if you have multiple machines.
 
Hi noodlefling,

I run a Dell Power Edge R610 in our production. We use FreeBSD 10, ZFS file system, and the PERC RAID controller. FreeBSD is installed from USB with a custom script. It has been running for eight months with no problem. USB support is good, as for everything else.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I have a Power Edge T420 in production, using a three-way ZFS mirror. It's been running with no problems for a few months (four, plus three months testing) although I'd turn off the disk controller "patrol" feature since it just adds spam to the logs. I'm pretty sure this has a PERC H310 as that was the only configuration I could get for SAS disks. I also have a R420 I've been setting up (for months now), also with no problems. This server was re-purposed from a Windows 2012 install with a PERC H710. JOBD isn't an option with this controller, so instead you have to set each drive up as a RAID stripe.

Note: I use Intel networking cards, so I can't say anything about the onboard Broadcom NIC.
 
Thanks for the information. It is very much appreciated.

I have been given a quote for a server and it includes a PERC H710p. Jeckt , could you please clarify what you said about about JODB not being an option with this controller? I must admit, I don't know what JOBD is and googling was not enlightening.

Also, at the time of the last purchase, it was "common knowledge" that SCSI drives were superior for 24/7 server-grade usage. Is this still the case, or have SATA drives improved to the point that they are safe for server use?

The specific issue we've experienced regarding USB hardware was with USB drives. Of all the models we tried, maybe 50% worked at all, and none of them worked consistently. Eventually we got regular laptop drives and installed them in USB cases that did the minimal amount of cleverness (caching, compression, etc.). As long we used the "dumb" cases with simple drives, they worked fine.
 
I am running only HP and SuperMicro hardware with FreeBSD, so I have nothing to bring to the table regarding your hardware-specific questions, but for your general questions:

noodlefling said:
I must admit, I don't know what JBOD is and googling was not enlightening.
Click to expand...

JBOD - just bunch of the disks - the controller doesn't make any virtual disk composed from multiple drives, but all drives are shown to the operating system as single units. The RAID controller works here only as (maybe little better) adapter, optionally with caches etc.

noodlefling said:
Also, at the time of the last purchase, it was "common knowledge" that SCSI drives were superior for 24/7 server-grade usage. Is this still the case, or have SATA drives improved to the point that they are safe for server use?
Click to expand...

SCSI is out today, SAS (serial attached storage) is the new SCSI. However there is a study from Backblaze about SATA disks reliability based on more than 30.000 drives they run, which you may want to see https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/

Also a new age brings its new problems, for example you may find the RAID 5 configurations not sufficiently secure today, because given today disk sizes, MTBF for them and time needed for array rebuild you may find too high probability that another drive will fail before array finishes rebuild and you will lost your data.

noodlefling said:
The specific issue we've experienced regarding USB hardware was with USB drives. Of all the models we tried, maybe 50% worked at all, and none of them worked consistently. Eventually we got regular laptop drives and installed them in USB cases that did the minimal amount of cleverness (caching, compression, etc.). As long we used the "dumb" cases with simple drives, they worked fine.
Click to expand...

If you mean USB flash drives, I never had any problems with them with above mentioned systems.
 
Thanks for the JBOD definition. We definitely want RAID (RAID 1), so if RAID is required with the controller, presuming it is capable of doing RAID 1, we're happy. I'll ask Dell.

Also thanks for the drive info. We're limited in the options that Dell will provide, but it will help us make the decision.

As for the USB drives, these were specifically large (1TB) unpowered drives. The plan was to use them to replace backup tapes for off-site storage, but they turned out to be just too flaky. They're a nice Plan B (well, backups are already a Plan B...so, Plan C), but I wouldn't trust them with vital data. Even the external USB laptop drives do not give warm fuzzies. Occasional weird error messages pop up and they need to be fsck'ed more frequently than is comfortable.
 
noodlefling said:
I have been given a quote for a server and it includes a PERC H710p. Jeckt , could you please clarify what you said about about JODB not being an option with this controller? I must admit, I don't know what JOBD is and googling was not enlightening.
Click to expand...
I have multiple PowerEdge R710's with PERC H700 controllers (that's the integrated model for the R710). By default, the PERC controller only exposes "configured" drives (ones that it knows about and has metadata on). These can be single drives or any type of RAID volume. Unless you're going to use ZFS, I'd suggest using controller-based RAID. There is a way to get the mfi(4) driver to expose unconfigured drives - as I recall it is sysctl hw.mfi.allow_cam_disk_passthrough=1. But you really don't want to do that unless you have to (for example, if you have a tape drive on one of the ports) - you get the benefit of the controller cache, etc. when configuring the drives on the controller. Also, you need to kldload mfip in order to get the dev/passN devices you'll need to use sysutils/smartmontools.

Also, at the time of the last purchase, it was "common knowledge" that SCSI drives were superior for 24/7 server-grade usage. Is this still the case, or have SATA drives improved to the point that they are safe for server use?
Click to expand...
You will need Dell-certified drives on your PERC controller or it will whine about non-certified drives (with current firmware it will use them, but will still complain). You have your choice of SAS 15K, 10K, or 7.2K in a variety of sizes or SATA in 7.2K. The exact drive models available will depend on how you configure your server.

One issue you'll run into is that Dell expects everyone to run Windows or Linux, so the various update utilities aren't available for FreeBSD. Fortunately, most can be booted from CD/DVD in a stand-alone environment. I occasionally write about these topics on my blog.
 
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