Evangelist

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Why FreeBSD?
This thread is meant for people who are new to FreeBSD and wonder if it's worth it.
For people tired of their usual OS, and want to try something different, are on a hunt for one, and find themselves in sea of Linux distributions and the odd one out FreeBSD, and perhaps a few esoteric OSes, and want to know the pros and cons.
This thread is meant for people who are FreeBSD enthusiasts, hardcore FreeBSD fans ("evangelists") who gladly try to convince the former ones, why FreeBSD is great, what can it offer, why is lovable and worth trying, or simply want to dwell in praising the beloved platform.

:) All who step foot here: Beware, you are in the devils den, and it wants to convince you :)
You have been warned, any further reading may cause long lasting FreeBSD addiction!
 
Everke

The FreeBSD forums is no place for spreading religious wordings. The forum rules say:

"The FreeBSD forums aim to build and maintain a friendly and co-operative user community. As such, you agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, political, religious, threatening, sexually-orientated or otherwise divisive or combative material, or anything that may violate any applicable laws."

Obviously you are a religious oriented person. Using a lot of religious words in an intended ambiguous way. Please respect that others here do not like this kind of framing.
 
getopt, the religion of (Free)BSD would be news to me ... might be a refreshing alternative to the church of the FSM though. So, don't exaggerate. No (actually) "religious content" to see here. And regarding the words used, maybe except for the "Evangelist", none of them has exclusively religious connotation. Well, generally advocate/advocacy is preferred in the context that's meant here, so what.

Edit: On topic, not sure we need another thread of advocacy, although I'm also not sure we have one specifically dedicated to advocacy, so ... *shrugs* ... starting with a repost of an older text of mine now: https://sekrit.de/webdocs/freebsd/advocacy.html
 
"The FreeBSD forums aim to build and maintain a friendly and co-operative user community. As such, you agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, political, religious, threatening, sexually-orientated or otherwise divisive or combative material, or anything that may violate any applicable laws."
---
Adding a slightly different emphasis to the quote above, I hope we can stop this right here. ?
 
oook.:)

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I have more than 1400 posts of yours to check on, also a lot of reports.
Enough is enough.
You are trying to threaten me? Again? You are selecting me because I have criticized you? You have a problem when the forum rules are cited? Are you trying to inhibit me personally?
 
You are trying to threaten me? Again? You are selecting me because I have criticized you? You have a problem when the forum rules are cited? Are you trying to inhibit me personally?
Look, this is just a gentle hint to behave. I have to say, I did see you make quite a few posts that do qualify as a 'personal attack' - and that's what got attention of the mods. Most of the time, adjusting the tone of the posts is enough.

Yeah, it can take quite a bit of self-discipline to realize that the Forums are actually searchable by Google, DuckDuckGo, and the like. No, there's no privacy in what you post. From that, it kind of follows that every time you post something, anyone on this planet (who has access to a computer) can see it. So, take a deep breath, and think before you post.
 
Why FreeBSD?
This thread is meant for people who are new to FreeBSD and wonder if it's worth it.
For people tired of their usual OS, and want to try something different, are on a hunt for one, and find themselves in sea of Linux distributions and the odd one out FreeBSD, and perhaps a few esoteric OSes, and want to know the pros and cons.
This thread is meant for people who are FreeBSD enthusiasts, hardcore FreeBSD fans ("evangelists") who gladly try to convince the former ones, why FreeBSD is great, what can it offer, why is lovable and worth trying, or simply want to dwell in praising the beloved platform.

:) All who step foot here: Beware, you are in the devils den, and it wants to convince you :)
You have been warned, any further reading may cause long lasting FreeBSD addiction!
To keep this thread on topic:

FreeBSD has a ZFS-based installer. It saved me a lot of time and headaches - I was getting frustrated with the process of partitioning the SSD, and having to spend a lot of time planning how to allocate the space. That, and the fact that FreeBSD is very consistent, and doesn't change out important components at the drop of a hat. Heck, it still has ifconfig, while Linux moved on to ip... oh, and Linux distros are reluctant to embrace ZFS for what amounts to licensing reasons. Well, if you want to know why people switch to FreeBSD, we do have a thread for that: Thread introduce-yourself-tell-us-who-you-are-and-why-you-chose-freebsd.68079
 
My 2 cents...because is a simple complete OS (kernel and userland) , at the beggining maybe looks complicated to new users but in time you will see that is clean and simple
not bloated , old style KISS system KISS principle
and that for my means speed and trust
there are many windows managers to choose,good amount of applications to do everyday job(in home or job, I use as my principal OS)
the commands not change because of the "flavour of the week distro" like ifconfig , etc
the only bad thing maybe is the new hardware, or old problems(like the hdmi audio not work in some intel cards)
and are things like that , if not work..not work...unless you are a developer and help
I forget , the ZFS filesystem is a great point, that also support encryption
 
My viewpoint is sort of the mirror image to what wolffnx just posted. For background, professionally I have been working on storage and file systems for the last ~25 years. So for my home computers, I tend to focus on having great availability and durability of my files. As an example, for the last 15 years we've been scanning all paper documents (there are some very fast and easy-to-use scanners available), and the storage of nearly all records at home is done digitally, in a big directory tree of PDF files on my home server (the exception is things like passports or old family photos). If that storage system vanished, it would be a big disaster for me.

And this the major reason I use FreeBSD at home: It has ZFS, which is in my (not at all humble) opinion the best file system (and RAID implementation) available to amateurs today. It has checksums, so the content can be trusted much more, it has scrubbing built in (so you get both hardware check and continuous fsck), and it supports an intelligent version of redundant storage; I use 2-way mirroring + two backup layers on my file system.

The other advantage of FreeBSD is that it is relatively clean and "simple", where "simple" doesn't mean lack of features, but well organized features. This is a long tradition of the BSDs (which after all are about 50 years old, and built on a long history of professional software engineering). This makes BSD easier to use. One of the reasons is POLA, the Principle Of Least Astonishment: Changes are minimized, and if necessary announced long ahead of time. Contrast that with projects that are run by inexperienced (but smart and energetic) young programmers, or by a single autocratic dictator who has a well-documented attitude problem (not all "benevolent dictators for life" do, for example Guido van Rossum or Bram Moolenaar did wonderful jobs steering their projects).

Does that mean FreeBSD is perfect, and I agree with all implementation decisions? No. But it gets closer than any other OS I know.
 
Whoa whoa whoa....
That went preeetty fast into flames :))
("flames" as in the irc slang flaming somebody, not as the flames of hell, that might carry some religious connotations :))
lol

I'll be perfectly honest with you, take it as it is or dont:

First and foremost:
I am aware that I am the newcomer here, in the sense, that I just subscribed to this forum, I barely posted anything, this is amongst my first posts, I do not know nothing about this community, but nor do you know anything about me.
I consider myself a polite person, I dont want stomp on anyones beliefs, and I dont want to breach any forum etiquette or cause any kind of disruption.

If you consider (forum admin, the community, whatever) that my post is inappropriate, and I do not belong here, than I'll respect that, (because I am that polite), you dont even have to ban me, I will voluntarily leave and never ever return.
In the spirit of lets not waste each others time, you mine, and I yours.

So as good manners demand, let me introduce myself.
My name is Várhelyi Áron. I was born in Romania in 1981 and still live there. As ethnicity I am hungarian (or better said secler). As some of you may know (or dont) in Romania in the Carpathian basin do live a group of o people called seclers (székely in hungarian) who are the biggest ethnic minority in romania. We speak hungarian, but we consider ourselves seclers (székelyek), think of it as an ancient hungarian tribe, we are not the same as people who live in Hungary, but we are like close brothers, we do speak a kind of dialect, but the difference is so slight, we can understand each other perfectly.
The common stereotype about seclers is that they are laconic people, who speak few words, they are wise and cunning, they value most of all freedom, (our most venered three values are: freedom,honor,and decency) not only as freedom of speech, but freedom of the individual, they are very tolerant, they will tolerate every belief and anything as long as it dont cuts into our freedom and humanity. Also we are very stubborn people, the good thing is we are also tolerant, so we can tolerate each others stubborness. We have a strong sense of nationality, we defend our own culture and language to the last blood, but we dont impose it on no one. We do believe in God, thou we dont follow any religion, we had a shamanic type belief system, of course nowadays we all are christians or reformats.
On the other side we are warriors, we were the poeple who in lead of our king Attila raided europe on horseback, with arches, all of europe feard us, hence the saying "may god save us from the arrows of Attilla the hun".

Bruhh...man, I had yapped enough about history and all..
I said all that just to ilustrate what kind of background do I come from, not to shine or polish myself (although I forgot to mention that we are also proud :)))

Haha haha :)) and I am very modest too... (pinky swear)

My father was programmer, I myself am a programmer. I worked mainly with databases, SQL server, Access, VB, and as a C#, C++ programmer, I dabbled shortly with Objective C and iPhone programming.
My true love is C and perhaps C++, but I also like python.
As a matter of OSes I grew up on DOS, then I used every version of Windows (my favorite among them was win2k, along with winNT), than later on I have tried most any flavor of Linux, begun with Red Hat (back then it was free, and the main flavor), then Debian, Slack, Arch, and many more, (not to forget FreeBSD, even back then I felt atracted to it, I dont know why) I even had a Macbook, and of course iPhone (the first version) it was fun...

So the reason I told you the whole story about seclers, is that I am true secler.
I am stubborn as hell, but also tolerant. I prefer to walk away, rather then fight over nothing, or cause harm.
I will defend my truth and freedom, but only if there is whom to talk. (meaning only if I see hope that the other side will understand.)
:))
I think Woody Allan once said: "There is no point about argueing with idiots, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with their routine"

So, with all that said. Yes its true, I am stubborn, but also open minded. I may come across as a bit harsh, but I'm only speaking from my sincere mind, I have no bad intentions, I dont want hurt anybodies feelings.

And to finish it up, here are my 2 cents:
When I started this thread, I was under the illusion that I started it in the "Miscellaneous/Off-Topic" section, where the motto is "chit chat about anything" maybe not about any other OSes technicalities . Well with all honesty, I do have a strange love for FreeBSD, maybe the kind of where even I cant reasonably argue why, as I said I tried many OS -es, I cant honestly say which one is better, Linux is pretty stable, so is FreeBSD, both have about the same principles, the same qualities, same programs available. So I guess is upto personal taste, maybe the logo (the little beastie) caught me, maybe that it has the word "free" in its name, all I know that I returned many times to FreeBSD (not necessarily for any rational reasons). I also think that it deserves more popularity, because it is up to par with any Linux distro, it is an operating system that can serve any user as a valid Desktop OS, as mutch as any Linux distro, yet I feel is mutch less used as such.

To return to me, among the many virtues I posess, right after modesty and humbleness, beneath intelligence and below abstract thinking I also have a good sense humor.
:))
Back to chit chat about everything.
Let me just ask you:
How afraid are you of religious terms?
May I mention the word "God" in any post?
Do I have to be a certified atheist to dare to write here?
is the phrase "oh, my God! I knew I forgot something!" offending someone here?
Or is the term "Evangelist" somehow offending that I dont know of?
Or may I presume you are not familiar with and/or considering offending the figure of speach "it is a holy war" describing a situation when two parties are argueing about two brands of essentialy the same quality, yet they are defending as if theirs where better, more original,"way cooler", or "the only true way".
As a non native english speaker do I really have to explain the somewhat abstract meaning of the word "Evangelist" as to mean "someone who is standing up spreading the word and popularizing an idea, with the intention of convicing others"

Or was I offending just yet as I said these?...
Well let just quietly add impulsiveness to my list of "virtues".

As usual no one is forced to agree with me, feel free to say so if I or my attitude is not wellcome here...
 
Whoa, may I say, It feels like I was offended. In a way, I definitely felt it was way out of line the act of citing upon my head the rules of the forum in this fashion. Maybe I am too sensitive.
My apologies, for my somewhat affectionate response.
As for the other posts, yeah this thread may be duplicate, or unneeded, have your way, its your forum, who am I to say, it was a random idea of mine, a tried it, it said in the description Off-topic, chat about everything you want as long as you stay within reasonable limits. Thats my understanding of it.
(other 2c)
 
As ethnicity I am hungarian (or better said secler). As some of you may know (or dont) in Romania in the Carpathian basin do live a group of o people called seclers (székely in hungarian) who are the biggest ethnic minority in romania.
In English, usually referred to as Szekely.

On the other side we are warriors, we were the poeple who in lead of our king Attila raided europe on horseback, with arches, all of europe feard us, hence the saying "may god save us from the arrows of Attilla the hun".
To Hungarians, Attila was a hero. To the rest of Europe, a villain. As you can see from the last two letters of my user name, I'm in the first camp. My grandfather's first name was Attila; my great-grandfathers first name Arpad.

How afraid are you of religious terms?
May I mention the word "God" in any post?
I don't think g*d is very relevant to using and programming computers. So I don't think you will see discussion of religion here. But figures of speech (both positive and negative) like god-like or holy war or "jesus f***ing christ" (sometimes heard when writing makefiles) are fine in normal conversational English. In the more polite form of speech that is appropriate to a written discussion in a forum, I would probably not use such words.

I think most people here completely understand what you mean by "evangelist", and that is a commonly accepted technical term.
 
…  for people who are new to FreeBSD …

:) All who step foot here: Beware, you are in the devils den, and it wants to convince you :)
… 

… the logo (the little beastie) …


Hints:
  1. it's explained that the BSD Daemon is not a devil; that the logo is not Beastie; and so on
  2. it's not truly about religion – a sense of humour was revealed :)
I know, you began in another topic, but I'll say it here: welcome to The FreeBSD Forums.

… beneath intelligence and below abstract thinking I also have a good sense humor. …

Thank God for that (and I'm not a religious person).

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Puffy agrees to Girl and Penguin's request for a sleepover at their horned friend of the Free clan, so they could hack at their custom pong game. To their surprise, when they arrive, the friend's master presents them with a lecture on FreeBSD.
SLEEPOVER
 

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Well, the "hello, I am [...]" part would have been perfectly on-topic in this other thread, while I still think a thread specifically dedicated to "FreeBSD advocacy" might make some sense ... but ... too late I guess :cool:

My true love is C and perhaps C++, but I also like python.
While I really dislike C++ for several (design) reasons, and I'm not really convinced by python, we can perfectly agree on C -- still a great language, still my personal favorite (and, of course, used a LOT in FreeBSD src).
 
Opinions and technical facts are welcome, but maybe leave out personally identifiable info, Everke ? I know conversations can get heated, but spilling personally identifiable info is just not a Best Practice... you never know how it can come back to bite you.
 
astyle: you may be right.
Crivens: guilty, I do get chatty sometimes..
ralphbsz: :) its great to have some fellow hungarians here.
grahamperrin: Poor guy... imagine that guy seeing this thread, and saying to himself "I knew it! low they confessed, they are with the devil". If it were for real, not a joke. But you could easily imagine let say some faithfull muslim 18y.o guy having a similar dilemma.

Maybe that's the precedence, why some folks are annoyed by "religious wording".
Nevertheless that red thing which I like to call the FreeBSD logo, still got horns, and from the discussion so far I recon that we all are at a level to understand symbolic speech, and understand jokes (more or less).
I think its clear to everybody that what I wrote I meant in a jokingly manner, yet unwillingly managed to step on a nerve.
So, maybe I musnt refrain myself of using wordings like "that config file is an infernal mess" (if it happens to be :)), or maybe I do...

You know the joke:
- Doctor, I feel so uncertain of myself... or do I?....

Thank you all for welcoming me.
 
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