Define legacy hardware

I think what sparked this off was the "i386" thing. Some take it literally, others take it as x86-32. Loosing the first would not be that amount of drama, loosing the 486 also. Loosing all of the 32 bit hardware just so someone can easily load the drm module? That is a bit steep. And by the way, why does the next gen drm code not play along with 32 bit arches? Anyway, I will see if I have some time today to read up on that thread.
 
kpedersen said:
For the record, I am a massive fan of "legacy" hardware. Especially the Thinkpad *60 range (I have a T60, Z61 and an X61 ;)).
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I also have a mass of ThinkPad junk.... However I would regard the T60 as legacy since it will not run FreeBSD amd64 wheras the X61
will. I was surprised about this when I discovered that was the case, so, to my mind 'legacy hardware' is something which won't run the amd64 variant of FreeBSD.
 
SirDice said:
No, it ended support for the 80386. There's a difference. i386 is the x86 based architecture, which includes the 80486, Pentium, Xeon, etc. The 80386 is a specific CPU of the i386 architecture.
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I'll have to fire up my IBM PS/2 Model 80 and see if I can install FreeBSD v6 on it :)

I did manage to get AIX installed on it one time... I wonder if it will start up after several years of abandonement...
 
Trihexagonal said:
What do you expect when FreeBSD developers are using Macs?
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Ridiculousness. Despite FreeBSD being my favorite OS, I need a mainstream desktop system for a multitude of reasons, just like many others do in the actual world. For the last 12 years that's been MacBooks for me. Whenever I can put FreeBSD on my desktop without compromising, I'll do just that.
 
darcagn said:
Ridiculousness.
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That's exactly what I expect and consider it when FreeBSD developers use Macs. We are in full agreement on that point.

darcagn said:
I need a mainstream desktop system for a multitude of reasons, just like many others do in the actual world.
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However, your idea of the "actual world" is subjective and may mean something entirely different to someone not as egocentric.
 
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Tri, we see eye to eye on alot but I differ here.
When did development of FreeBSD ever require a FreeBSD running laptop.
I really don't see the problems with the creature comforts of Macbook while programming your FreeBSD server.
That doesn't make you any less of a programmer.
Its like arguing what paint brush is best for masterpieces.
 
Phishfry said:
Tri, we see eye to eye on alot but I differ here.
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No problem. We can differ on opinion and it not be the end of the world.

I can be very opinionated and likely to let it rip when I make it known. It would be a pretty boring place if everybody thought the same way, and a madhouse if everybody thought the same as I. :p
 
Trihexagonal said:
That's exactly what I expect and consider it when FreeBSD developers use Macs. We are in full agreement on that point.
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I assume Apple laptops? I don't really see an issue here. Laptops are a massive clusterfsck(8) of broken standards and it honestly is not reasonable to expect FreeBSD to support all brands and models of laptop. Even vanilla Windows & drivers has certain compatibility issues.
Sure, I would probably prefer Thinkpads, but the developers had to choose the most common hardware to support and today that happened to be those produced by Apple.

To be honest, modern Thinkpads these days are actually quite overrated and they are certainly not as cheap as they used to be. The older ones are only cheap because of ex-business surplus but those days are pretty much over. Most businesses I have worked with buy HP now because it is cheaper. So in about 10 years, HP will probably be the "legacy" laptop of choice for FreeBSD users.

Of course once a company finally produces a cheap and truly open-source laptop, I am pretty sure it will dominate the market. FOSS operating systems probably will focus on that and very little else. Just think how stable and well tested it would be :)
Sadly it will probably only happen well after our lifetimes the way the (corrupt) industry is going. In the future, I doubt we will even be allowed to legally *own* what resembles a laptop.
 
kpedersen said:
To be honest, modern Thinkpads these days are actually quite overrated
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I agree. I don't see how BIOS Whitelist jives with "Open Source"
Now I know BigBlue was an early FreeBSD supporter but hardware lock-in and Trihexagonal is complaining about a MacBook.
BAH.
If its such a big deal that developers use a FreeBSD laptop then it defiantly shouldn't be a IBM. Not with that customer attitude,
I bought all my Dell Latitude E6xxx off lease on ebay barebones. I like having a bunch of inter-changable parts laptops.
HP too used Whitelist too.
 
Only because someone uses a macbook does not mean it runs mac os. Standing in a garage does not make you a car (or bike).

Just saying...
 
Though I was just thinking back to my Apple hardware experiences.. *shudder*.
My Mac Mini was pretty much EOL the day after I bought it. The fancy Mac keyboard I bought with it was not even recognized by its BIOS / EEPROM so I had to plug in an old janky USB keyboard to hit the 'C' key to boot from the DVD or select the OS.

All Apple's documentation suddenly referenced the model just two months newer than mine. It is like they were trying to hide the fact they ever released this model. They never provided a firmware update to fix the Apple keyboard issue.

Perhaps it is good that FreeBSD is putting priority to supporting Mac hardware, since unlike all other brands, Apple puts zero effort into maintenance. These would pretty much go straight into landfill otherwise.

In the UK, a second hand Apple laptop never really devalues which is annoying because they aren't cheap. It is also slightly baffling because in my experiences, once Apple drops support, as mentioned before, the hardware is effectively as good as bricked as far as typical usability and maintenance goes.

Oh, they also look naff and consumeristic. I am here to play nethack, not write a sodding screenplay ;)
 
Well, Thinkpads are on the way out, all the current laptops are more or less heaps of bits with ducktape and spit in the cracks.
My current laptop was 1.6k when new and there is no update either. So what can one buy? I think I will use some second hand T61 when possible or an pre-retina Air...
 
Crivens said:
Well, Thinkpads are on the way out, all the current laptops are more or less heaps of bits with ducktape and spit in the cracks.
My current laptop was 1.6k when new and there is no update either. So what can one buy? I think I will use some second hand T61 when possible or an pre-retina Air...
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No, I wouldn't want a new Thinkpad any more than any other new laptop. Thinkpads changed their keyboard after the *20 series (T420, W520) so the T430 has what they refer to as the "chiclets keyboard".

My W520 is also a business lease return and went for just over $200. It had a retail price of $2999 on the reviews I read when researching it. Looks and runs like new. You just have to know what to look for in signs of wear, deal with a reputable seller and be looking to buy at the right time.

Right about .... Now.
 
The W520 sells for just under 700€, I just checked. Now? Don't think so.
 
Trihexagonal said:
No, I wouldn't want a new Thinkpad any more than any other new laptop. Thinkpads changed their keyboard after the *20 series (T420, W520) so the T430 has what they refer to as the "chiclets keyboard".
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On top of that, they even added a numeric keypad to the W500 series laptops! Ew.

I gave up on Lenovo after that they did that. The newer XPSs from Dell are looking pretty nice nowadays. The new Razer Blade 15 is an absolute work of art, that's packed with lots of goodness inside. Hopefully someone will be awesome enough to run FreeBSD on it. :)
 
Crivens said:
The W520 sells for just under 700€, I just checked. Now? Don't think so.
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That was undoubtedly from a private seller. Mine is a business lease return, look for a seller who has several in stock. It's the luck of the draw which one they pick, so go with a selller with a good feedback.

I see several W520 in the $200-$300 range offered on the first page, but you use a different monetary denomination so we may be looking at different ebay offerings.
 
Well, I looked at a store specialised in used gear, lease returns and all that. They sell the T61 for about 120€, which is a fair deal. But for that money, I'll sooner get me a ryzen based rig.
 
I find that an awful lot of current laptops has neither CD/DVD nor wired network. Now that is what I call obsolete hardware...
 
Okay, so I checked out the drm-next/stable-kmod and it is not dropping support for 80386 what they do. They drop all but amd64, which will leave two of my machines without drm and thus OpenGL. Can someone please point me to why the linuxkpi needs amd64?
 
Today I fired up a DELL DCSM desktop of 2007; Pentium 4 is capable for both i386 and amd64, but simple it only has 512MB ram, I would only use i386.
 
I am currently checking if I can make drm-next-kmod build on 32 bits, already found some problems with the code but will continue with it. Maybe it can run, who knows?
 
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