Can FreeBSD (or one of the other BSD's) revive this old computer?

J

jaaj

Greetings forum.
And thank you for a remarkably professional forum.

I hope that I am posting this thread in the appropriate area. I considered posting to the Installing & Upgrading area but I thought this area was more appropriate.

I must say that, after reading the FreeBSD forum "Rules and Guidelines", et al, I felt a little intimidated with the thought of posting here. :-)
I suppose the intimidation comes more from the prospect of posting in a community of professionals that, because of my extremely limited knowledge of the BSD operating system, (and my experience with many, many other Linux based forum's) I didn't, and don't feel that I'm qualified to communicate intellectually with those offering assistance.

With that said, and throwing caution to the wind, here goes....

I am interested in installing FreeBSD onto a computer that is 12+ years old....and an Emachine:OOO at that!!!

The Subject:
Here is a brief synopsis of the computer in question:
The currently installed system is:
Kernel 3.7.10-antiX .3-486-smp i686 (32 bit)
My Personal Consensus: The OS is running adequately on this platform.

Machine: System: TriGem Product: Emachines (<--"garbage") Version: 000000 Bios: Phoenix Version: v3.00 date - 01/29/2001

CPU: Single Core - Celeron (Coppermine) (-UP-) Cache: 128 KB Flags: (PAE SSE) clocked at 631.426 MHz

Memory Controller Information: Supported Interleave: One-way Interleave Maximum Memory Module Size: 512 MB Maximum Total Memory Size: 1024 Supported Speeds: 70 ns, 60 ns.
Supported Memory Types: DIMM & SDRAM (the memory currently installed is 512 MB. DIMM's. Upgraded from the original 64 MB DIMM's)

Graphics: (on-board) Card: Intel 82810 (CGC) Graphics Controller.
currently installed X.Org: 1.12.4 drivers: Intel (unloaded: fbdev, vesa)
X.Org: 1.12.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x768@75.0hz
GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on softpipe GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 8.0.5

Audio: Card-1: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 driver: snd_emu10k1 Sound: ALSA ver: k3.7.10-antix.3-486-smp
Card-2: Intel 82801AA AC'97 Audio Controller driver: snd_intel8x0 (turned off in BIOS)

Network: Card: Realtek RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ driver: 8139too IF: eth0

Drives: HDD Total Size: 28.2GB (32.1% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: WDC_WD200BB size: 20.0GB


It's been said that, FreeBSD is referred to as, "the unknown giant among free operating systems" and based on my brief exposure to FreeBSD back in 1999, (as well as what I have learned since becoming a Linux user) I agree. It should be noted that this comes from a very, very limited introduction to FreeBSD, and if I am correct, Linux has little to do with BSDs (for the most part).

Unfortunately, I have spent most of my computer career as a M$ Windows user and as such have become very lazy and complacent in the computer OS arena. However, I have been a Linux user for the last 7 years and as such, I have gained a limited working knowledge of the Unix/Linux environment.

With this said, and please forgive me for prattling on here's:

The Question: Can I revive this old computer and build a functioning machine by installing some flavor of BSD on it.

As far as what this machine will be used for????
I expect that it will be used primarily as a "general purpose machine". I realize that's very ambiguous but I'm afraid I can't offer much more than that. To be honest, I have access to pallets of these old machines and I'm looking for a reliable OS that I can install, administrate (if applicable) and apply to a wide verity of uses and, hopefully at the same time, keep them out of a landfill by re-circulating an otherwise obsolete machine.

I would like to think that BSD can fulfill this need.

I hope that I have been articulate without being overly bloated in my description (something that, I'm afraid I fail at most of the time) and have conveyed my needs in a way that makes since.

Thank you for your attention to this matter and for any help that you can provide.

Respectfully,
jaaj
 
I would say the answer to your question largely depends upon your intended use of these machines. I have been running FreeBSD on machines way older than these for quite some time, so I don't see why the base FreeBSD OS should not run on these. So the question is what other software you plan on running ontop of FreeBSD?
 
If you are looking for a desktop machine then my advice would be to get a copy of FreeSBIE and see how it runs. FreeSBIE runs a fairly old version of FreeBSD but since your hardware is fairly old you should get an idea of usability (for whatever your use case is). FreeSBIE has a text mode, lower graphical power and high graphical power modes. I'd suggest the low power but give it a whirl.

If you think it's acceptable then get an ISO of the latest FreeBSD and follow the handbook to install FreeBSD and an environment similar to FreeSBIEs (X, Window Manager etc).

If you're thinking of setting up some small servers then you'll be fine, just install the latest FreeBSD and run with it.
 
FreeBSD will run on those, but that's a slow and power-hungry Celeron from the Pentium II era combined with an old and slow hard drive. If you are determined to have a desktop, PC-BSD has a choice of desktops. Try xfce or LXDE, but avoid KDE and GNOME.

There is one revision of Intel graphics that is not supported by the Intel X driver, although I don't recall which. It's an old one that Intel wants to forget having made. If those systems have that--and maybe even if they don't--a trip to the recycler is in order. In fact, some old CPUs are relatively valuable for the gold in them. With some work, it may be possible to convert the components in those old machines into enough cash to pay for used but newer and more useful machines. A recycler may have such machines to trade.
 
mickey said:
I would say the answer to your question largely depends upon your intended use of these machines. I have been running FreeBSD on machines way older than these for quite some time, so I don't see why the base FreeBSD OS should not run on these. So the question is what other software you plan on running ontop of FreeBSD?
Click to expand...

At this time I don't have any specific plans for the machines beyond finding an operating system that will run on these things. I realize that this is not much of an answer and I apologize for that but, if I can finally commit to an OS that runs well on this hardware, (and that doesn't have anything to do with Microsoft) I can begin to make more committed decisions about what each of these computers will be used for.

Thank you for your help and advice.

jaaj
 
Following your advice I looked at FreeSBIE and I believe it holds promise. I will take a closer look at this option and make a decision from there.

Thank you for your response and advice.

jaaj
 
wblock@ said:
FreeBSD will run on those, but that's a slow and power-hungry Celeron from the Pentium II era combined with an old and slow hard drive. If you are determined to have a desktop, PC-BSD has a choice of desktops. Try xfce or LXDE, but avoid KDE and GNOME.

There is one revision of Intel graphics that is not supported by the Intel X driver, although I don't recall which. It's an old one that Intel wants to forget having made. If those systems have that--and maybe even if they don't--a trip to the recycler is in order. In fact, some old CPUs are relatively valuable for the gold in them. With some work, it may be possible to convert the components in those old machines into enough cash to pay for used but newer and more useful machines. A recycler may have such machines to trade.
Click to expand...

I am somewhat familiar with PC-BSD and with Xfce as well. In fact I remember downloading a PC-BSD LiveDVD several months ago but I didn't try to run that DVD on one of these older computers. Maybe it's time to find that DVD and give it a spin?

As far as the Intel graphics that you mentioned, I think I have that one in the computer that I am currently using to post this response, and I think there's a good chance that, those are the graphics chips that are in these old machines.

You mentioned the fact that some of the older CPUs are worth recycling for their gold value. I have heard that before and I am certain that I have several of those old processors laying around. It didn't even dawn on me to consider recycling them for the precious metals in them. That is a great idea and I thank you for it. The trade idea is also a good option.

You have given me some thing to think about.

Thank you @wblock@. I appreciate your advice.

Cheers
jaaj
 
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wblock@ said:
FreeBSD will run on those, but that's a slow and power-hungry Celeron from the Pentium II era combined with an old and slow hard drive. If you are determined to have a desktop, PC-BSD has a choice of desktops. Try xfce or LXDE, but avoid KDE and GNOME.

There is one revision of Intel graphics that is not supported by the Intel X driver, although I don't recall which. It's an old one that Intel wants to forget having made. If those systems have that--and maybe even if they don't--a trip to the recycler is in order. In fact, some old CPUs are relatively valuable for the gold in them. With some work, it may be possible to convert the components in those old machines into enough cash to pay for used but newer and more useful machines. A recycler may have such machines to trade.
Click to expand...

Would that be the GMA500?

As for @jaaj, I agree, PC-BSD would probably be right up your alley for the kind of system you seek.;)
 
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I have run FreeBSD/OpenBSD on a Via C3 Desknote with 512 MB of memory and an onboard Sis 630 video chip. The poster above has a nice thread on setting up a light weight window manager that I run on the Desknote.

The one issue with NetBSD is that most users derive their software from Pkgsrc - a ports system that compiles from source. If you are having the older computer compile its own packages, it will take a long time. NetBSD does provide binary packages but in my experience they are not as up to date as the packages in FreeBSD or OpenBSD.

OpenBSD is another option based on their emphasis on pre-compiled packages. As a result of [thread=35308]Taz's howto[/thread], wbar made it into the OpenBSD package repository. One can quickly assemble Taz's Desktop using OpenBSD packages.

The other advantage of OpenBSD, on old hardware, is that APM is the default for power management. It is easy to use ukc to disable APM at which point ACPI is enabled.
 
@jaaj, welcome aboard.

Your computer has more memory than my desktop, so FreeBSD will definitely work fine as long as you use the right applications: window manager (e.g. FVWM), browser (e.g. Opera, NetSurf, Dillo), file manager (e.g. Xfe), etc.

I believe the only problem you might encounter is graphic-related. As many have already mentioned, some earlier Intel GPUs can be quite problematic, especially first and second generation ones.

You'll either have to run under VESA or at least disable things like hardware acceleration and bear with Xorg freezing the entire system every now and then.
 
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I want to thank all of you for your invaluable assistance.
I know that I still have a great deal to learn and having come from a long and miserable journey through the bad lands of MS, I have become lazy and complacent with respect to learning a new OS but I am sure that I'll get through this successfully. It may take the rest of my natural life but nothing ventured, nothing gained they say.

You have all given me a lot of options to choose from and for that I am grateful, not only because it will give me a chance to play around with programs that I have never used before but, and more importantly, a chance to learn how to build and fine tune a software environment specifically suited for the hardware that it lives with.

So, thank you all for your help and advice and I hope to be spending a lot of time in this forum asking questions and drawing on your experience and wisdom.
Please be patient with me though as I still have a great deal to learn.

I will always try to find the answers to my questions by reading the documentation available or by searching available KB's, before coming here, but I am certain that occationally I am going to run accross something that I just don't understand. I hope that I can turn to this resource at that time.

You have all been a great help and again, I sincerely thank you all.

jaaj
 
taz said:
Since you also mentioned "flavor of BSD" I would also suggest taking a look at NetBSD.

It is known that it can run on a toaster :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading it. At first glance I thought (as the article mentioned) it was nothing more than a mod.
What he has done with that toaster is nothing less than incredibly creative. In my opinion.:)

I looked at NetBSD more than a year ago but thought it was beyond my skill set however, I think it's worth another look, I mean, if it can run a toaster?
jaaj
 
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