A guide for the perplexed : Results of Debian Referendum on Systemd

C

ctaranotte

Here we go

To me, they have come to realize that they over-invested in Systemd and they are no longer sure this is the way to go.

So as a result, they want to bury their confusion under a reassuring mountain of statistics, hedge their bet and keep all their options on the table.
 
If only someone would've told them to reconsider systemd BEFORE they made the switch haphazardly.
Oh wait, thousands did...

'Explore other options...'
That's great. The world needs more linux distributions overloaded with the same GNU stuff.

Sorry for this sarcastic rant ?
I just don't understand GNU.
 
GNU/Linux has always made a point of "GNU is Not Unix" and yet has always remained oddly UNIX-like.

I am glad Linux is finally moving away from UNIX and to its own systemd like OS. It is like we are finally seeing the slightly problematic child sod off, move out and make his own life so we can get back to ours XD

Hopefully we will finally see that it is the "UNIX philosophy" that works and not just simply how complex and cool the OS is.

We will need to brace ourselves for an influx of ex-Linux hipsters saying "But Linux has feature X, why doesn't the FreeBSD distro have that?"
 
it's a shame,debian was a great distro but they made their choise, and leaving a lot of users without the oportunity of at least 2 init systems ..so now ...bye bye debian..i found beastie :)
 
For me, the "vote" and the exploitation of result are very strange...

Some option are exactly the same thing :

  • Option 3 "A: Support for multiple init systems is Important"
  • Option 6 "E: Support for multiple init systems is Required"
And
  • Option 5 "H: Support portability, without blocking progress"
  • Option 7 "G: Support portability and multiple implementations"
And what append if we sum this options...
 
wolffnx said:
it's a shame,debian was a great distro but they made their choise, and leaving a lot of users without the oportunity of at least 2 init systems ..so now ...bye bye debian..i found beastie
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Same here, was a happy Debian user for a long time. They took a turn from what I want in a system. If they're trying to get away from being Unix-like that's what they seem to be doing. For me I want a Unix system so FreeBSD is best for me. Actually wish I had started with FreeBSD in the first place.

I think it's great if more people come to BSD, more development opportunities. But yeah that's not good if they expect it to be something it is not and try to make it that way.
kpedersen said:
It is like we are finally seeing the slightly problematic child sod off, move out and make his own life so we can get back to ours XD
Click to expand...

Yeah but they're always going to keep a room open for him.
 
Most of the financial support for systemd comes by way of IBM/RedHat. Donation dependent Debian (my worst alliteration of the day?) would need to be confident that the funds/expertise for an alternative could be counted on.

Edit: spelling for the Grammar Nazi
 
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These systemd hate parties are beyond hilarious. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we need systemd on FreeBSD but it's not because systemd is a POS (which it's not), it's because we don't need it on FreeBSD. Said differently the only criteria is the following: If it ain't broke, then don't F with it.
 
cyberzeus said:
These systemd hate parties are beyond hilarious. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we need systemd on FreeBSD but it's not because systemd is a POS (which it's not), it's because we don't need it on FreeBSD. Said differently the only criteria is the following: If it ain't broke, then don't F with it.
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Hilarity is joining here specifically to defend bloatware.

Oh, incidentally, there's never been any serious effort to introduce such a rat's nest like systemd, so you can sleep easy now knowing that. Someone tried a port or something, then apparently fell into a coma...

Ps has systemd stopped expanding yet, or is it still gobbling up user space? There's surely 100s more services, libraries and utilities it can re-write/re-invent? Will it ever finish? Of course not, because in linux-land when something becomes stable, it gets labelled as unmaintained and they all scream out that it's time for a new one and a full re-write.
Now that's hilarious.
 
mark_j said:
Ps has systemd stopped expanding yet, or is it still gobbling up user space? There's surely 100s more services, libraries and utilities it can re-write/re-invent? Will it ever finish?
Click to expand...

The whole point of systemd is being an umbrella project for Lennart's projects. It's quite intentionally doesn't have any scope.
 
mark_j said:
Oh, incidentally, there's never been any serious effort to introduce such a rat's nest like systemd, so you can sleep easy now knowing that. Someone tried a port or something, then apparently fell into a coma...
Click to expand...
A few years ago there were several attempts at porting launchD. NeXTBSD was probably the most recent.

Porting systemD (or reimplementing features like loginD) makes more sense because software originating in Linux is often compatible with BSDs than software originating in macOS. For example, neither X11 (discouraged) nor Wayland (not ported) nor OpenGL (4.1 max, deprecated) nor Vulkan (Metal shim) are well supported on macOS.
 
freebsd_noob said:
I think it's Red Hat wanting to take over Linux.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's really that, but there's something evil at work in the Linux world.

The vote at Debian was twisted from the start : though there are several init systems out there (e.g. runit, openrc and s6), the choice that has been given by Debian was between systemd only and systemd + SysV init. Other alternatives have never been mentioned, even upon request. And of course, in the 21st century, who would be willing to use SysV init any longer?

And in order to make sure no discussion would be possible, see what they've done from what was at the beginning a simple yes/no question: the voting process has been made completely surrealistic and the interpretation of the results absolutely opaque. Politicians would have a lot to learn from this vote!

In the past, Debian was proud of its values and was pushing forward its social contract. All of this is long gone with the wind.

Maybe Red Hat isn't plotting to take over Linux. Maybe it's just that the spirit that was blowing on the beginnings of the Linux adventure has vanished, leaving just dark egos and greedy merchants in the temple.
 
oops said:
A few years ago there were several attempts at porting launchD. NeXTBSD was probably the most recent.

Porting systemD (or reimplementing features like loginD) makes more sense because software originating in Linux is often compatible with BSDs than software originating in macOS. For example, neither X11 (discouraged) nor Wayland (not ported) nor OpenGL (4.1 max, deprecated) nor Vulkan (Metal shim) are well supported on macOS.
Click to expand...

Porting systemd makes NO SENSE. None. It's not compatible with ANY open standard, it's linux-centric, it's junk and it does not benefit or enhance FreeBSD (or any non-linux based OS) in any way.
 
mark_j said:
As a follow on, the only country I know of off hand that executes civilians via firing squad is Indonesia.

They don't allow smoking; it's bad for your health! ;)
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There are worse ways to go (and many better ones).

That said, the one who puts systemd up in ports will be a high contender for the balls of steel award. And he better wear asbestos underwear. Apart from that, huge respect for pulling that off and beating that code base into submission. But that would still not make me like it.
 
while I think a new, more modern init system would be worthwile we all know that the resources in FreeBSD are limited, so in that case they would better be spent on more important things (attracting more users with a proper ac wifi stack etc.). However I think we all agree we don't want systemd, at least not in the format/excess Linux is using it.
 
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