A BIG win!

Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

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Messages: 591

Screen Shot 2021-02-17 at 1.32.51 PM.png


We did it guys! Now let's move that percentage up. 😄
 

obsigna

Daemon

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Now lets all read aloud and all together the bottom line of the screenshot:

Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide“

Now I counter this with my perscounter HomeStats of the Total Operating System Share Homewide“

3 macOS desktops
2 Windows desktops
1 FreeBSD desktop
2 FreeBSD server
2 FreeBSD embedded devices
2 FreeBSD VMs
2 FreeBSD cloud server (AWS - not exactly at home, but under my control)

Homewide OS Share:
64,3 % FreeBSD
21,4 % macOS
14,3 % Windows

Not counted 3 mobiles.
 

cynwulf

Member

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Messages: 59

Great result. Nice round number. In terms of percentage of general crapness, Linux actually isn't doing too badly...
 

Mjölnir

Daemon

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It would be very charming to compare that to the % of
  • root DNS nameservers running BSD, especially FreeBSD
  • other DNS nameservers; DNS makes up for a very large fraction of internet traffic
  • other internet servers, e.g. Netflix makes up for a huge amount of internet traffic
  • network appliances that are derivatives of FreeBSD
and then sum all up and compare the OS by the % of internet traffic handled.
 

kpedersen

Daemon

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Is it just me but is anyone else fairly impressed that FreeBSD even got on that desktop OS stat counter graphic?

I think it is pretty cool that FreeBSD manages to break away from the "Unknown" group. All at the same time FreeBSD provides just a CLI out of the box! XD

If you split the (very low) 1.91% Linux stats up into individual distros, we might even find that FreeBSD beats a fair few of them. In all of our command line glory ;)
 

BostonBSD

Active Member

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Messages: 115

The most correct answer is that of fewest assumptions.
The group choice is that of fewest rejections.

[read that several times, you might not want that percentage to go above 0.0%]

{It probably isn't Bill Gates who keeps threatening to get rid of the Windows console every other year. Larger groups keep pulling in every direction.}
 
OP
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Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 442
Messages: 591

Is it just me but is anyone else fairly impressed that FreeBSD even got on that desktop OS stat counter graphic?

I was too. The recognition alone is needed. 😅 Hopefully the sudden gossip about helloSystem will get us more of these bonus points now and future.
 

kpedersen

Daemon

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{It probably isn't Bill Gates who keeps threatening to get rid of the Windows console every other year. Larger groups keep pulling in every direction.}
There was a big push at Microsoft in ~2010 to try to get rid of the command prompt from every workflow.
And 10+ years later Microsoft releases Windows Server 2019 with no desktop by default*, relying on just a command line. It just shows, these guys have no clue what they are doing or what is better.

They are just flailing around, reacting to market pressure. From a market who are also incompetent, don't know what they want and are just reacting to vendor pressure.

* They now call it "Desktop Experience" and is seen as a less supported addon for legacy:
https://computingforgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/install-windows-server-2019-04.png
 
D

Deleted member 66267

Guest


There was a big push at Microsoft in ~2010 to try to get rid of the command prompt from every workflow.
If command prompt means the old cmd.exe then yes, they were right about that.
 

kpedersen

Daemon

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If command prompt means the old cmd.exe then yes, they were right about that.
cmd.exe is the shell (for both conhost and powershell). Yes they were naively trying to remove it. Microsoft even pushed their backwards views into education. Even now you have a generation of (then schoolkids) who believe that any sort of command line interface is old-fashioned and that the GUI is "modern".

Powershell is their attempt to improve upon a proper terminal
conhost is what you think of as the "old" DOS-style command prompt

Both of these run within the command prompt (cmd.exe). And Microsoft has finally realized that they are crucial for any type of professional or enterprise work.

They are playing catchup via things like this: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal
And adding superficial things like tabs. But the fact that they cannot run things like tmux means that those tabs are useless with things like SSH. They are getting considerably far behind.
 

Argentum

Well-Known Member

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Messages: 393

Maybe, maybe not. Just checked on https://www.whatsmyua.info/ with the default User-Agent: sent by Chromium on FreeBSD. One of the three parsers there detects it as Linux.
That is true. I have noticed this before that Chromium on FreeBSD identifies as FreeBSD and Linux at the same time. Do not know where to configure it to send the correct string. Firefox is sending a correct FreeBSD string. Konqueror is similar, sending:

Code:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) QtWebEngine/5.15.0 Chrome/80.0.3987.163 Safari/537.36 Konqueror (WebEnginePart)

Chromium string:
Code:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/88.0.4324.150 Safari/537.36

Firefox:
Code:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:86.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/86.0
 

BostonBSD

Active Member

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Messages: 115

The terminal/console is much faster to operate and easier to script, however, the learning curve is steeper than with the gui.

There are certainly circumstances where one or the other may be more beneficial, however, I think it's naive to believe that any sort of command prompt will ever become obsolete [vocal commands might be a prospective replacement, but this, I think, would become increasingly irritating].
 

Zirias

Daemon

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This discussion is IMHO heading into a strange direction. The question is not GUI or CLI, you want both. And even for GUI applications, you want to be able to do everything with the keyboard in an efficient way (for "power users"), because it will (almost) always be faster.

Windows had a poor CLI, and I think powershell still stems from the time when the NIH-syndrome was strong at MS. It might be a good CLI, but who would bother to learn that? There are many great shells, and POSIX is a common denominator for many of them…
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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Maybe, maybe not. Just checked on https://www.whatsmyua.info/ with the default User-Agent: sent by Chromium on FreeBSD. One of the three parsers there detects it as Linux.
Here I am really:

jitte@jigoku:/ $ uname -a
FreeBSD jigoku 12.2-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p3 GENERIC amd64

This is what I look like at the link you provided using the "User-Agent Switcher" Firefox extension:

According to useragent v2.2.1:
ua

rawUa: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/62.0.3202.9 Safari/537.36
string:
family: Chrome
major: 62
minor: 0
patch: 3202
device: Other 0.0.0

os

string: Windows 10 0.0.0
family: Windows 10
major: 0
minor: 0
patch: 0
 

vigole

Daemon

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And 10+ years later Microsoft releases Windows Server 2019 with no desktop by default*, relying on just a command line.
Windows had a poor CLI, and I think powershell still stems from the time when the NIH-syndrome was strong at MS.

In Windows circle, there's a growing tendency for using WSL2 and PowerShell,
i.e. PowerShell 6 aka PowerShell core, not old ones. That's a good thing - IMO.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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Well I miss the Windows command prompt that used to be readily available. I carry a Ju-on for someone in the form of 24 keystrokes never invoked. 🙏
 

scottro

Daemon

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You can still do Windows key and just type cmd in the thing that opens up. (I'm fortunate in that my job doesn't require much use of Windows. I have a VM that I need to access some VMWare machines, so I don't use it very much at all, but you can still do that, unless I'm missing something, or more likely, misunderstanding).
 

BostonBSD

Active Member

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Messages: 115

Microsoft never got rid of the cmd prompt, they only keep making threats, they've been doing this since WindowsNT came out.

They introduced PowerShell as a sort of replacement for cmd, but they still never got rid of it. Then they started making threats that they would get rid of both cmd and PowerShell, but they didn't do that either.

Now they have PowerShell Core, which is a sort of cross-platform opensource variant of PowerShell.

I always found PowerShell slightly circumspect, sort of like driving this big tank or 747, a vast array of knobs and switches, each one of utmost importance. The largest dawback, for me, had been that some of the commands require an entire phrase to be typed into the command line, which I would never remember [something like bash autocompletion would help them considerably].
 

ShelLuser

Son of Beastie

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They introduced PowerShell as a sort of replacement for cmd, but they still never got rid of it. Then they started making threats that they would get rid of both cmd and PowerShell, but they didn't do that either.
Got any sources to back up that claim?

See, my sources tell me that PowerShell was never meant to be a cmd replacement, it is in fact a direct result of Microsoft realizing the administrative potential which a command line environment can have. Or to put this more directly: after discovering the popularity of cli based OS'ses like Linux they figured to go along the ride. Building a CLI environment is per definition a lot cheaper than a GUI (definitely where time is concerned) and acknowledging Unix was bound to score them some credit points with the geek crowd.

As for cmd... many scripts rely on that, task planner (or whatever it's called in English) also relies on this and well, in the end it's a heck of a lot faster than PowerShell so I don't see that part going any time soon.
 

BostonBSD

Active Member

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Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Latest Windows 10 Build
{Microsoft clarified that they were not replacing cmd.exe in an update.}

Perhaps, I'm not remembering correctly or maybe I misunderstood at the time, but whenever I use Windows the first thing I do is bookmark cmd.exe and powershell.exe.

Over the course of my experience I keep getting news reports, perhaps not from Microsoft itself, but from reputable sources that they are getting rid of these tools.

Now this has never actually occurred, but there are a many instances where rumors circulate about their removal.

Microsoft announced that they were removing support for Windows PowerShell 5.1 in 2016, then they announced they were initiating PowerShell Core, although quite similar, is opensource and platform independent.

However, this only backs up the claim that the group does favor the answer of fewest rejections and not necessarily the answer of fewest assumptions, Microsoft itself, does not appear to be behind the drive to obsolate the command line shell. It appears to be from the masses who use Windows, the majority of whom I suppose do not use command lines.
 
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