Solved Host Bus Adapter question

Greetings all,

I would like to add several additional drives to my server, but all the motherboard's SATA ports are already occupied.

I remember having had asked about an HBA working with ZFS few years ago, but the search function cannot find the thread. So, I am asking again.

A general search suggested two cards LSI SAS 9207-8i and LSI SAS 9211-8i.

Is this still a good recommendation, or would you suggest something else?

Kindest regards,

M
 
Stay away from the Lenovo LSI versions of 93xx. They use different firmware and suck.

I like to stay away from anything MegaRAID. True you can flash them to anything but more hassle.
Plus some have Battery Backup modules that are not worth the maintenance trouble.

You are probably going to need new SATA fanout cables. SFF8087 is done. SFF-8643 is new connector.
 
Hi cracauer@,

thank you for the reply.

I did not look at the 93xx series as it is for 12GB speed. Will it be backward compatible with slower drives?

Hi Phishfry,

thank you for the reply.

So as not to buy a wrong card, it will say something like LSI Lenovo 9300 unlike, e.g., LSI Broadcom 9300, correct?

Kindest regards,

M
 
Yes I think it is i540(2 port) and i740(4 port) Lenovo SAS card that have LSI93xx and are the cheapest used because they suck. Sometimes misrepresented on ebay. Not worth your time.
 
Hi Phishfry,

thank you again.

I looked at e-bay, and indeed there are some Lenovo's. Is Inspur a good brand or should I go with Supermicro for a few more $? Well, as I have Supermicro motherboard, I will go with Supermicro.

Kindest regards,

M
 
SuperMicro LSI controllers are in the same boat as Intel Versions. They have their own firmware.
But it is freely available. Not a bastard like Lenovo.

One machine I use the SuperMicro 93xx variant but I used all three the same exact controller. That is on 24 drive machine. I like consistency of same controllers for storage.
Separate drive groups by controllers.
 
Is Inspur a good brand or should I go with Supermicro for a few more $?
Well now you are asking for an opinion.

Here is my take. I hate clones. Especially when it is hidden. Inspur makes nothing. They own nothing. It is strictly a brand for cloning (ie. stealing IP) LSI Broadcom property and keeping an arms length.
No offices to raid. Nothing but a brand built on theft. Ebay and Amazon split some of the profits with them.

No Thanks. I would rather buy a used SuperMicro LSI controller with known components.
 
As you can see here it is just a matter of opinion.
I don't like clones. Just my opinion.
My data is worth more.
 
I have a bunch of LSI controllers, including the 9211-8i. It used to be a popular controller a decade or so ago, but it's downside is the high power consumption in conjunction with a tiny heatsink that will fail to dissipate the heat properly unless you have a 2u enclosure (or a 1u with a riser) with air pressure optimized system fans. In fact, even with a 2u enclosure, the 9211 will get quite hot (80C-ish over here in my Supermicro CSE825), and if that heat is registered by any temperature sensor, your cold zone fan(s) are going to turn crazy... and fail to heatsink the 9211 nevertheless, because it's tiny heatsink is insufficient. With supermicro rack chassis of any flavor there's a trick though: you can widen the air shourd at the fan wall side, while keeping the exhaust side condensed, which will result in the shourd bleeding air onto the topmost PCI slot (might not work for CSE743 / 745 enclosures because those have exhaust fans that pull air which reduces the bleed effect). If you install the 9211 into the top pci slot and can have bleed air there, the bleed air from the shourd will push the 9211 below 50C.
My recommendation would be to use a 9300 or 9400 even if you can bleed air on the 9211. The 9300 uses 10W less power then the 9211, the 9400 uses even less power then the 9300 and overthe lifetime of the controller these power savings will accumulate into power bill savings larger then the price difference of the 9300 to the 9211. The 9300 has a larger heatsink, probably twice as large as the 9211 on top of using only a third of the power, which makes it more heat manageable. The 9400 has a _huge_ heatsink covering the whole card (easily 10 times larger then the 9211) while again using less power then the 9300, the supersized heatsink handles dissipation so well the 9400 probably can be operated just fine inside a desktop chassis w/o front-to-back airflow optimizations.

FreeBSD-15 can use the 9211/9300/9400 series controllers out of the box.
 
I agree with 94xx recommendation. They are worth shopping. I have a bunch of 9400-16i LP controller I was testing with Tri-Mode.
Not worth the cable cost for NVMe controller. Slower than native PCIe.
You can get controller based NVMe RAID with them.
Lower power means less heat.
 
Hi Phishfry,

ha ,ha, of course I am asking for an opinion. Is it not logical to inquire with with someone who has the experience?

I am little confused about the "clone" adjective. As I understand from the research so far, the heart of the board is the controller made by Broadcom. Thus different manufacturers using this controller are clones? Clones of what, the Broadcom design? Is this not the same as different video-card manufacturers using NVIDIA chip?

What am I missing?

Hi xibo,

thank you very much for all the details. I did not realize the amount of heat the HBA consumes, as he onboard SATA controller does not have a big heat-sink.

I am rather concerned about the temperature, I modified my case to separate the power supply and its fan form the rest of the case, installed hard-drive cages with fans, so it is a good information that you provided.

Kindest regards,

M
 
Clones of what, the Broadcom design? Is this not the same as different video-card manufacturers using NVIDIA chip?
Well my guess is at very least these people are not paying license fees. Should you care?
To make them cheaper I worry about ancillary parts on the PCB.

The TrueNAS post seems to indicate Inspur is a China firm making servers. I may be wrong about them.
They have the 2nd largest market share in the global public cloud server market.
You do not know them because they sell directly to hyperscalers (AWS, Google, etc.)
I call bull-crap on this claim.

I usually try and buy legitimate parts. It makes me sleep better.
 
I seem to remember a quirk with the above board being a power pig.

The reason it has the huge heatsink (versus the LowProfile version) is it has two storage controllers on it. Power budget went up too.
Versus LP version which has a different storage processor and was also more expensive. Lower power and LowProfile. Just more $$$.
 
Hi Phishfry,

I really appreciate all your additional information, but it makes it harder for me to decide. :(

Maybe the 94xx with only 8i?

Do you have any experience with the surplus place that you linked to?

Kindest regards,

M
 
Yes I have bought from Unix Surplus. Like them. I think they are in the bay area. They do datacenter harvesting.

I think the 94xx is a more forward thinking choice if you only need 8 drives.
94xx brings TriMode with it but the cabling price is stupid. It allows one NVMe per 4 lanes//SFF8643 connector.
IE. on an 94xx-8i card-Four SATA/SAS and One NVMe. Or two NVMe or 8 SATA/SAS.
Different firmware including Mixed Mode for both.

For a 16i card you can do all kind of combinations. 2x NVMe and 8-SATA/SAS, 12-SATA/SAS and one NVMe or 16 SATA/SAS and lastly 4 NVMe drives.
 
The TriMode cabling is really high priced. It is only needed with NVMe on LSI but it does give you alot of cabling options.
Intel 8 Bay NVMe Backplanes work nice with it using the Oculink Trimode cables.
For example TriMode cables are around $80-$120 and usually fluorescent green colored jacket.
.
 
The cable standard has moved beyond SFF8643 as well and this is found on LSI 95xx series.
So do you want to invest in an old cabling scheme? Not outdated just dated.
 
Hi Phishfry,

thank you for the additional comments, they helped me to clarify the issues.

Hi cracauer@,

that is a good point. I currently need additional three ports, well, let us say four if I were to mirror the OS installation drive. So, It seems that the 8i is more than sufficient.

Kindest regards,

M
 
but all the motherboard's SATA ports are already occupied.
Sounds like a good opportunity to move them to a proper controller too..

So the 95xx series uses a different connector. SFF-8654

TriMode cables are different for 94xx and 95xx.

Breakout cable for 95xx-8i. Different lengths available.
 
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