Amiga vs Atari ST

Pick one! (Or two or three)


  • Total voters
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A big plus of the Atari ST was its builtin MIDI ports. And Cubase.

There is a Cubase clone for PC called Master Tracks Pro which is capable of running in real mode Windows.
However due to lack of performance of some high XT/low AT compared to ST, it's not that usable.

Not only the software, AFAIK main reason that many musicians used ST even long after MIDI and software from the same companies was available for PC and Mac has to do with near perfect MIDI timing that was possible on ST. I'm sorry that IDK technical details about that, just repeating what I heard.

MIDI is a serial port.
What I think is going on, is that ST has performance of a faster AT machine, but is being compared (price wise correctly) to a slower AT machine or even fast XT.

There are two ways to move data in/out of peripherals - programmed I/O (ports) and DMA.

In case of XT the DMA is shafted by design and high throughput applications use PIO. In XT arch it takes 5 bus cycles to transfer 8bit word at PIO. The bus speed is never above 8 MHz because of tolerance of contemporary cards...

8MHz ST being 16 bit would be automatically twice as fast as 8 MHz XT, not accounting it probably has more optimal bus cycle per op count.

On the other hand, AT/286 does have an extra wait state in memory bus mode because. ST could be optimal here too.

So a 8 MHz version could be as good for MIDI or any throughput tasks as a 10-12 MHz 286 is.

Just freestyling here :)
 
Funny that no one mentioned Apollo Computer V4 Standalone, where one can choose ROM and OS and have Amiga or Atari (or even 68K Mac) with the same, modern and quite advanced hardware.

They are the first to bring the end to this eternal Atari vs Amiga war 😉
The Apollo Computer I am aware of is the one that was started in 1980 in Chelmsford, Massachusetts. They produced one of the first workstations with a bitmap display and with a distributed network OS Aegis (you could page in/out over the network to a remote disk). IIRC their workstations cost $10K each in 1981-82. Aegis was written in Pascal. They later replaced Aegis with Domain/OS which supported Aegis, sysV and BSD. Aegis was way ahead of its time but not Unix. Given their graphics display were popular for CAD, engineering design etc.

This new one seems Germany based.
 
I bought an Atari 520ST mainly for its bitmap display and even their $300 "development kit" but didn't do much with either. I was already very familiar with Unix, used Unix at home (Fortune 32:16) and all my consulting/contract work was mostly unix related. In the end I gave it away to someone (don't recall who). Later on I saw Amiga at a hacker meet and liked what I saw but it was not Unix so didn't bother buying it.
 
The Apollo Computer I am aware of is the one that was started in 1980 in Chelmsford, Massachusetts. They produced one of the first workstations with a bitmap display and with a distributed network OS Aegis (you could page in/out over the network to a remote disk). IIRC their workstations cost $10K each in 1981-82. Aegis was written in Pascal. They later replaced Aegis with Domain/OS which supported Aegis, sysV and BSD. Aegis was way ahead of its time but not Unix. Given their graphics display were popular for CAD, engineering design etc.

This new one seems Germany based.
That Apollo you are talking about was bought by HP in '89.
 
That was in '85 when PCs had beepers. Besides there are plenty of third party audio cards.
Not before '87 - AdLib, IBM IMFC, Roland MT-32 (external). Creative released C/MS in '89, and Microsoft released WSS as sound card specification only in late '92.

I'm not counting Tandy 1K which had good sound for the time but was not even close to the later cards.
 
That was in '85 when PCs had beepers. Besides there are plenty of third party audio cards
well we made covox clones but support was limited to a few games :(
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wow, the ps/2 has 0 votes. no love for the mca token ring adapter ....
It would not surprise me if there is still an installed base of PS/2's somewhere out there in the world. The build quality of the hardware was very high, matched only by the price. I doubt there are many original ST's or amigas still in use now.

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It would not surprise me if there is still an installed base of PS/2's somewhere out there in the world. The build quality of the hardware was very high. Matched only by the price. I doubt there are many ST's or amigas still in use now.

View attachment 23599
Amigas were not built poorly. Sure you have bad caps and leaky batteries, but every piece of electronics runs into that at some point. I have a PS/2, I like it, but I think nothing can beat my AGA Amigas.
 
It would not surprise me if there is still an installed base of PS/2's somewhere out there in the world. The build quality of the hardware was very high, matched only by the price. I doubt there are many original ST's or amigas still in use now.

View attachment 23599
I watch a lot of YT for ST content and turns out they rarely need even recap work to be done on them; they just work - even 40 years old ones.
 
1. it was about the ps/2 not the amiga
2. it's about the ussr industrial design which kind of suck nothing to do with the commies
You got to stop thinking of it as a 'computer' and start thinking of it as a business machine... Trust me the hardware on that generation was top notch, like the AS/400's and the RS/6000's. Completely different grade from the ST or amiga. And a completely different price to match!

But yeah if I was to whack you with that keyboard you would know all about it :)
 
domestic (romanian) computer were by far the shittier both industrial design and reliability / build quality
looks like a terminal you'd put in a high security prison or something
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It always interested me that the ussr had a huge number of zx spectrum clones. Long after they stopped being used here, and many of them much better built than the original sinclair junk (well, almost anything was better than that).
 
cpm had the most business software in the 8 bit world like wordstar, turbo pascal, dbase and others
(
Which all were also available on a MS-DOS machines.

I got my first serious programming experiences on Turbo Pascal. An illegal black copy. Sorry for that, Borland.
I couldn't afford you [a fourteen year old pupil with 20,- allowance was told he has to pay 1k for the IDE, and 2K for each library; without any you cannot do anything really useful in time. (No wonder open source became successful *cough*)] But you teached me well. So: Thank You!
That's btw. another theory of mine: By my theory Autodeks's AutoCAD became #1 because when first PCs entered student's desktops it was the easiest to black copy, while others protected their SW with dongles. So everybody ran AutoCAD. And what will be bought later in the company? Everybody knows. Which was everybody used as a student: AutoCAD :cool: (☝️I had a legal copy of MaxonCAD the CAD its name I still don't remember on my A2000 - so, don't sue me for this! 😁)
)

Yes.
But don't oversee the "revolution" when computers 'went home.'
CP/M was before MS-DOS.
As far as I know, IBM assigned as small subcontractor named Microsoft to develop a "somehow unixlike, but way less complex, and easier to use successor for CP/M" which became DOS, which IBM finally not bought, and which MS then sold by themselves, which was the initial start for..."the rest."

However, for the situation we are talking here, CP/M is of no importance.
You cannot compare the numbers of business machines used in offices while the era of 8bit homecomputers, with the - way - larger numbers, when Johnny Everyone went to the supermarket to buy himself a "PC" for 899,- at "radioshack" - especially not when "the internet started."

You can turn it as you like, pick single aspects which were absolutely correct, but you have to see it as a way more complex process with not only technical, but economical, and also social aspects over app. thirty, fourty years...

To end with an (old) joke:
Without free porn the internet never got out of universities, astronomy, and the military. 😁

Personally, as some electronics educated engineer, interested in computers all my life, if I could use a time machine, I would go to San Francisco, and back in time, just to watch and listen the meetings of the Homebrew Computer Club. Today this was all on Youtube - BORING! Listen to real people's ideas - LIVE!
I guess, there was one or the other brillant idea not made it into business world; forgotten. Maybe stored in some basement's cardboad box on some yellowed paper written with typewriter... we may could think of today.
Maybe. Maybe not.
For sure I missed a thrilling period on computers.
But I was too young, and on the other side of the world - one cannot have everything.:cool:

But I am very happy to use with FreeBSD an Operating System that follows the best ideas computer science brought up, no matter what the market tells - which is ruled by the majority, who are morons. :cool:😁:beer::beer::beer:
 
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By my theory Autodeks's AutoCAD became #1 because when first PCs entered student's desktops it was the easiest to black copy, while others protected their SW with dongles. So everybody ran AutoCAD.
AFAIK AutoCAD was dongle protected from v2.1, and (at least here, in Serbia) every professional had to include their AutoCAD sn on the plotted drawing if wanted it legally accepted. But there were ways around that, and many used same serial on their plots.
 
I got my first serious programming experiences on Turbo Pascal. An illegal black copy. Sorry for that, Borland.
well in eastern europe software was all free back then. the copyright law was unclear and mostly not enforced until mid 90 or something
i used to crack dongle protected software "on contract". mostly engineering stuff which was not popular on the warez scene and not already cracked
i also did "trainers/loaders" for video games but that were for fun cause nobody payed for that :)
 
well in eastern europe software was all free back then. the copyright law was unclear and mostly not enforced until mid 90 or something
i used to crack dongle protected software "on contract". mostly engineering stuff which was not popular on the warez scene and not already cracked
i also did "trainers/loaders" for video games but that were for fun cause nobody payed for that :)
I started my first registered business at age of 15 ('85), selling software, games and manuals for ZX Spectrum. Since there was no law to prevent "illegal" copying of foreign software, and I was paying my due to the state, I considered myself to be a privateer, and not a pirate 😁
 
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