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Why Never Follow Schedule?

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Majorix, Dec 7, 2012.

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  1. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    I have been a FreeBSD user for the past year. I have seen two -RELEASE's. None of which has been released as promised.

    9.1 was said to be released in late November, according to a formal page I have checked. Then they said it would be released on December the 5th. And that didn't happen either.

    So the questions are:
    1. Why formally declare release dates if you won't follow them?
    2. Why need 6 months of testing to just release a minor version?
     
  2. break19

    break19 New Member

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    We can either release broken crap, but "on schedule" or release WORKING stuff, late. Your choice... I prefer the way they do it now, but if you prefer broken releases, Linux distros do it all the time.
     
  3. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    I don't need "broken crap". That's why I prefer FreeBSD over Linux (which I used in the past). But I am speaking about "promises" given.
     
  4. Remington

    Remington New Member

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    FreeBSD 9.1 is already released before December 5 in svn depository. It's not that difficult to create the iso or usb image after doing the buildworld, buildkernel and make release.
     
  5. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    I don't check svn. I am talking about the link you get when you click "Get FreeBSD", which most of the new users would check first.
     
  6. xibo

    xibo New Member

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    9.1 is in release/9.1.0 and releng/9.1 for almost a week. The announcement will be made once all builds were created and the mirrors have synced to them.
     
  7. kkt

    kkt New Member

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    But I am speaking about "promises" given.

    It's not a promise, it's an estimate. It even says right on the web page with the estimate, "Release dates are approximate and may be subject to schedule slippage." Actually, I've been using FreeBSD since version 5, and the releases have always been at least several weeks after the estimated date.
     
  8. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    That's what I am talking about :)
     
  9. Remington

    Remington New Member

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    I agree but as for experienced FreeBSD user, the whole process only takes about 2 hours to create the images. I already have FreeBSD 9.1 image installed on my production server.

    Anyway I rather have it released later than early with unresolved bugs. FreeBSD team knows what they're doing.
     
  10. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    I am running FreeBSD -CURRENT myself, and don't really care if 9.1 -RELEASE is out or not. But it is about reliability and honesty with new users.
     
  11. fonz

    fonz Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    There are no promises. FreeBSD releases are published when they are good and well ready, not when some tentative (but admittedly almost always much too optimistic) schedule says it was initially hoped to be done.

    In fact, I've been using FreeBSD since 3.3-RELEASE and I estimate that release schedules slip by as much as two months on average. Which makes me wonder why the initial release schedules don't just factor in two or three months of margin or "run-off".

    Fonz
     
  12. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    Then they should mention that the schedule is subject to change :)
     
  13. Beastie

    Beastie Member

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    Well, the schedule does mention "Expected" and "Actual" dates, so I'd think people should naturally expect it to be subject to change...
     
  14. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Member

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    Who's being unreliable and dishonest? They do what's expected, are upfront on those expectations, and aren't lying about anything.
     
  15. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    @Beastie
    Check -RELEASE announcement :)
     
  16. Beastie

    Beastie Member

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    What "-RELEASE announcement" would that be?

    AFAIK, announcements only exist for past releases, the most recent one in the 9.x branch being "Release 9.0 (January 2012)".

    The "Upcoming Release" link points to a page with "Expected" and "Actual" dates.

    And the Release Engineering page explicitly says: "Release dates are approximate and may be subject to schedule slippage".
     
  17. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    ^that's what bothers me mate. Nothing else.
     
  18. NewGuy

    NewGuy New Member

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    I also find it strange that FreeBSD can't put out a release on schedule. I'm not sure if they ever have. Which begs the question why they publish a release schedule if they don't plan to follow it?

    As for the people saying, "Do you want it on schedule or working?" I'd like to point out that OpenBSD has a consistent six month release cycle and manages to produce a working OS each time. Obviously it isn't an either/or situation for them, why would it be for FreeBSD?
     
  19. Majorix

    Majorix New Member

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    My point overall. No need at all. I would know if it is very close anyways, when I see the RC3 or something.
     
  20. graudeejs

    graudeejs Member

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  21. fonz

    fonz Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It is what it is, deal with it

    Yes they can, just add two or three months to the initial target date. As I said above, I think that in their release schedules FreeBSD should probably factor in a margin of that order of magnitude anyway, but once you've been around for a at least a few releases you'll probably know what/how to anticipate.

    FreeBSD is not OpenBSD and both have very different philosophies about release cycles. FreeBSD does not roll out a release just because it's about time to do so, it starts rolling out a release (which is an elaborate process) when it's sufficiently different from the previous one. And then it will take some time to iron out all the issues before it's truly ready. OpenBSD can and does roll out a new release every six months but they could potentially do so whenever they want to because they're always more or less in the process. FreeBSD on the other hand has distinct development and release/stabilisation phases. FreeBSD's approach isn't necessarily better than OpenBSD's approach (or vice versa), it's a matter of choice.

    On another note: between -RELEASE and -CURRENT there's always -STABLE. Releases aren't that important anyway.

    In any case, you can probably expect 9.1-RELEASE to be out in time for Christmas :e

    Fonz
     
  22. zspider

    zspider New Member

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    I understand your frustration, but the wait is for the best, else it would end up a terrible mess, like that other OS.
     
  23. zero

    zero New Member

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    I using FreeBSD since version 5, and the releases have always been at least several weeks after the estimated date
     
  24. fonz

    fonz Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Knowing that, you should also know when to expect a new release...�e

    Fonz
     
  25. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Member

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    I'm face palming myself to any mention of missing release dates as this happens all the time in all industries and some, here, are acting like it's a FreeBSD only thing. What a childish and immature position to take. It sounds like little kids stomping their feet on the ground and yelling, "But you promised!!!".

    Those with ANY experience in manufacturing, software, or...a job of any sort...realizes that such ESTIMATES are ESTIMATES!!! I told the story somewhere on this board of the time I was asked to give a date when I would finish a project and I said three months, my boss put down six months, and I finished in a six weeks. Was I being dishonest? Why did any of us bother to write down a schedule if we didn't plan to follow it?!

    Jeez. Get a life. Learn how the world works. Get a real job.
     
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