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[PHORONIX] Sony's PlayStation 4 Is Running Modified FreeBSD 9

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by pkubaj, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. pkubaj

    pkubaj Member

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    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM5NDI

    Interesting, but IMO here's where GPL shows its strengths - if FreeBSD were GPL-licensed, AMD would have to release code for its drivers. Now, I guess we can count on someone hack PS4 and extract those drivers, but it's not going to be legal.
     
  2. Savagedlight

    Savagedlight Member

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    If FreeBSD were GPL licensed, they wouldn't have used FreeBSD. Let's face it; this is probably the main reason they didn't go with Linux in the first place.

    I'm glad they're using a FreeBSD fork though. These things tend to have nice things trickle back in the long run, if for no other reason than to make it easier for them to get the newest and shiniest from upstream.
     
  3. zspider

    zspider New Member

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    There seems to be some idea over there, that the GPL magically stops people from taking the code and not giving back, in reality there's really nothing to stop them from doing so if they throw it into a closed source project. BSD wisely realizes this and does not attempt to impose those kind of restrictions.

    There also seems to be a lot of envy simmering over there about Sony choosing FreeBSD.[​IMG]
     
  4. ShelLuser

    ShelLuser Member

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    Actually that's not correct. Because only if you fork an existing project which is licensed under the GPL will you be forced into licensing your work under the GPL too (I never understood how this was supposed to be a sign of freedom).

    But that doesn't apply if you're programming a separate extension for an environment which just happens to be licensed under the GPL. Because your project is not a fork, you're most certainly not forced into distributing the main program with your extension, and so I can easily come up with closed-source extensions for GPL licensed code.

    I think you're confused about the stuff which goes into the Linux kernel. But that's a totally different ballgame which has nothing to do with GPL restrictions. It's not the GPL which prevents people from distributing closed source kernel modules, it's their desire to have their module distributed ("embedded") together with the kernel. Eventually it's Linus' choice to determine what does and doesn't get included. And if you send him a binary kernel module then I have a good hunch what the verdict is going to be.
     
  5. throAU

    throAU New Member

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    Commercial vendors being able to use FreeBSD and NOT have to release all their code is a FEATURE (i.e., not a weakness).

    Not a bug.
     
  6. kpa

    kpa Member

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    Correct. The choice to allow binary only releases of BSD licenced code like in this case is a completely intended one. BSD license does not try to put unnecessary restraints on code that has little value outside the system it's intended for, for example a firmware for a device like a cable box with DVR capabilities, what good is the firmware without the device itself? Why would an average user be interested in the source code of the firmware?
     
  7. alie

    alie Member

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    Sony is not giving back to FreeBSD like Yahoo! Really sad there is no take and give.
     
  8. throAU

    throAU New Member

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    Code:
    [jrose@proxy /usr/src/sys/contrib/altq/altq]$ less altq.h
    /*      $FreeBSD$       */
    /*      $KAME: altq.h,v 1.10 2003/07/10 12:07:47 kjc Exp $      */
    
    /*
     * Copyright (C) 1998-2003
     *      [B]Sony Computer Science Laboratories Inc.[/B]  All rights reserved.
     *

    etc.
     
  9. Crivens

    Crivens Member

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    Sounds interesting - I will head over there in the lunch break to have a peek at the comments.
     
  10. pkubaj

    pkubaj Member

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    I know the BSD license is used because of its advantages, but no one will say that it doesn't have disadvantages, just like GPL has pros and cons as well.
     
  11. cpm

    cpm Member

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  12. overmind

    overmind Member

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  13. Crivens

    Crivens Member

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    Just read some comments there - I think some of the zealots are offline due to a stroke. Normals trolls are immune to this, so they are still there.

    Basically the tradeoff is clear and argued all over again and again. Force the sharing ./. share by gift (as if you could sue someone for violating the GPL and then show up in court with reassemblies of encrypted binaries you somehow picked out of a secured, closed system like some game console... not gonna happen).

    What I find quite disturbing is the tendency to deny developers to choose what licence they want. WTF? Can someone please grow up? When I put code under the BSD licence, it's my choice to do so.

    The PS4 is said to be pretty different from off-the-shelf HW, so I see no point in Sony not giving anything back. On the contrary - doing so would make sense. You need not keep it up to date on your own that much. And when finally someone else may find an architecture sufficiently close to the PS4 on the shelf, well, I think the PS4 will be considered gone by then. So no loss there. Only more developers who already know the ropes and can make things for the then-hot PS6.

    Some of the posters there seem frustrated that they don't get asked to nitpick on the brushwork on the bikeshed. Not that they would have any choice in the paining, or the color, or the whole blooming shed.
     
  14. NewGuy

    NewGuy New Member

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    Wasn't the PS3 also based on a branch of FreeBSD? I seem to recall rumours to that effect when the previous generation of consoles came out. As such it makes sense for the PS4 to use FreeBSD as well. And it looks as though Sony will be contributing patches back, so everyone wins.
     
  15. TiberiusDuval

    TiberiusDuval New Member

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    I don't know for sure, but at least it used the UFS filesystem.
     
  16. CoTones

    CoTones New Member

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    The FreeBSD is a true server OS and not suited for games. Sony is totally crazy for doing that. </irony>
     
  17. ahavatar

    ahavatar New Member

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    When are we going to be able to run an AMD 7000 series graphics card on FreeBSD? I hope AMD will release its FreeBSD driver.
     
  18. Savagedlight

    Savagedlight Member

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    From what a game developer friend told me, the "driver" is probably a programming API specifically for this chip, and wouldn't make much sense outside of that context. It wouldn't be an X.Org driver.
     
  19. DutchDaemon

    DutchDaemon Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    A forum user alerted me to the fact that there's a user 'DutchDaemon' showing up in the PS4/FreeBSD topic on the forums at Phoronix. I'd like to have it on the record that that is not me. I don't use the name 'DutchDaemon' anywhere else, ever.
     
  20. cpm

    cpm Member

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    He is the Linux (GPL) @DutchDaemon's version :e
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2014
  21. mlsemon

    mlsemon New Member

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    All I see are a couple of pictures. It starts with GRUB in one picture, which could suggest that it's Debian kFreeBSD, or maybe GRUB2 loading regular FreeBSD. Then in the next picture, someone's loading libstdc++, suggesting that Sony isn't totally against the GPL, and even then the license version hasn't been established yet.

    So basically, the idea that it's based on "modified FreeBSD 9.0" comes from one sentence on a site I've never visited. Might one of the experts here correct me? I've seen only enough kFreeBSD to run back to the real FreeBSD rather quickly, not much longer than that. Thanks!
     
  22. zspider

    zspider New Member

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    I saw that too, I was like "that's not the real @DutchDaemon. <_<"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2014
  23. Blueprint

    Blueprint New Member

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    I knew it was not the real Dutch when he used two consecutive exclamation marks. That is not grammatically correct!
     
  24. Crivens

    Crivens Member

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    What brought a smile to my face is that the first rant post I saw from the evil twin has the obligatory "Last edited by DutchDaemon; 06-25-2013 at 12:38 AM." footer.

    Seriously, some people who post there should seek help.
     
  25. kpedersen

    kpedersen New Member

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    That is quite cool that people relate the name @DutchDaemon so closely with any news regarding FreeBSD. Perhaps we should replace Beastie with @DutchDaemon ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2014