View Full Version : FreeBSD 9: awesome and made of win
GullibleJones
February 10th, 2012, 00:11
I think this version is (finally) the end of my long, sordid affair with Linux and my occasional flings with Windows.
Exhibit A: My wifi and ethernet work! And so does my ACPI! At the same time, too!
Exhibit B: Both KDE 3 and Firefox 10 are available in the package repos.
Exhibit C: automounter. Works just like the mounting system in Win2k... Or like autofs on Linux, only much less finicky and much more friendly. HAL automounting in KDE didn't work, so I installed this; now I have no reason to use HAL automounting at all.
Next up: printing via CUPS, and maybe ACPI suspend/hibernate if I can be bothered.
Meanwhile I am quite greatful to the FreeBSD developers for maintaining this OS, fixing its bugs, and not breaking everything every six months! Thanks guys!
throAU
February 10th, 2012, 01:59
Welcome. FreeBSD = Unix for Unix people. Linux is pretty much "Unix" for Windows people.
Enjoy your stay!
GullibleJones
February 10th, 2012, 18:02
Thanks. :D
Printing now works, wifi works, and though the KDE power manager tray icon doesn't work, apm -z does... So I think I am all set.
phoenix
February 10th, 2012, 20:09
Welcome. FreeBSD = Unix for Unix people. Linux is pretty much "Unix" for Windows people.
The old saying goes something like:
FreeBSD is for those who love UNIX(tm).
Linux is for those who hate Windows(tm).
:) And it's so true, on so many levels. :D
GullibleJones
February 11th, 2012, 00:01
It is, isn't it? Linux is nice in some ways, but it lacks a coherent vision, let alone coherent development and maintenance. The BSDs have both. Shame that GNU/Linux is the more popular OS; I think that, if more people knew about *BSD, the popular opinion of free software and its quality might be very different.
P.S. automounter is great. It actually respects device node permissions!
rossiya
February 11th, 2012, 01:49
Linux is just a kernel. ;)
pestaa
February 11th, 2012, 10:39
FreeBSD = Unix for Unix people. Linux is pretty much "Unix" for Windows people.
This sums up my feelings very well, thank you. (Tweeted (https://twitter.com/#!/pestaa/status/168267196408135681) with attribution to you.)
kpedersen
February 11th, 2012, 15:18
Linux is just a kernel. ;)
Yeah, someone unfortunately named it incorrectly. It should just be called 'Lin' and then only once an appropriate user-land is developed for it (perhaps in the next 200 years). Then it can be allowed to be called Linux.
UNIXgod
February 11th, 2012, 20:05
This sums up my feelings very well, thank you. (Tweeted (https://twitter.com/#!/pestaa/status/168267196408135681) with attribution to you.)
The original quote was "BSD is for people who love UNIX and Linux is for people who hate Windows."
Not sure the origin. OpenBSD developers maybe.
sossego
February 14th, 2012, 00:08
I'm not too sure about the "made of win" part when it comes to the xml style sysctl variables in the recent releases- somebody didn't exactly announce that the format would change. Whitehorn's BSD install disks didn't have that shortcoming.
hadrons123
February 14th, 2012, 04:41
@GullibleJones Could you be more specific about this automounter?
What port are you referring to?
I have had enough with HAL.
drhowarddrfine
February 14th, 2012, 04:49
The original quote was "BSD is for people who love UNIX and Linux is for people who hate Windows."
Not sure the origin. OpenBSD developers maybe.
It was me. Last week. On a Tuesday.
UNIXgod
February 14th, 2012, 05:05
It was me. Last week. On a Tuesday.
Theo? Is that you? :)
ZOMGLOLOLOLChEeZbooGEr!!!
(GNUNIX == Failsauce | *BSD << WIN)
... Sorry. I couldn't resist! Everyone knows FreeBSD can install awesomeWM and is made of fairy dust filled with lemon meringue whipped from tangerine dreams with a minimal amount of binary drug usage. :):):)
throAU
February 14th, 2012, 06:58
I thought FreeBSD was made with the tears of GNU hippies?
DemoDoG
February 19th, 2012, 23:36
yeah tell me too about this automounter of yours, Gulliblejones? :-)
debguy
April 12th, 2012, 17:26
If this is true use the old un-broken version (or port pkg from). They can break it but they cannot erase past that was stable: it still it.
I think it's a shame they are breaking old things by lying on and mis-using major / minor lib versions. Though most of it no one is discussing the most important issues of unix with newbies - newbies then go on to write good features that break a lot of shit and require breaking other software to install! :)
debguy
April 12th, 2012, 17:29
They can break libs like a DLL hell and hide drivers. it won't on unix - on unix everyone sees it plainly it's designed that way - on unix there is always a awk like to fix havoc.
Crivens
April 13th, 2012, 15:18
...Shame that GNU/Linux is the more popular OS; I think that, if more people knew about *BSD, the popular opinion of free software and its quality might be very different.
No. If more people of a certain type knew of *BSD, they would try to participate and we would end up with steering comitees trying to design software by controlled democracy. If refused they would cry foul and start throwing things at the bikesheds. I think you know who I mean ;)
Any software can only be as good as the developers who build it and the environment they do it in. So the larger the projects, the larger the manpower needs to be, and with increased numbers you also get those who enjoy p****ng into the pool. From the high board.
</rant> ;)
Sceak
April 14th, 2012, 18:27
If I may interject...
What you are referring to as Linux is in fact GNU/Linux.
That is all.
UNIXgod
April 15th, 2012, 09:34
If I may interject...
What you are referring to as Linux is in fact GNU/Linux.
That is all.
RMS, Is that you?
GreenMeanie
April 19th, 2012, 18:04
No, FreeBSD would take off if you could stop people in these forums telling others it is a server software only. I stopped using it when I couldn't even get Gnome to automount a USB Stick and external HDDs. Yes, it needs to be easier to use for the masses.
That is why I personally still use DEBIAN and CENTOS. Ease of use and not wanting to remember 100's of commands to get something to work that I can do with a GUI. Nevermind the installer still sucks copy UBUNTU's.
It is, isn't it? Linux is nice in some ways, but it lacks a coherent vision, let alone coherent development and maintenance. The BSDs have both. Shame that GNU/Linux is the more popular OS; I think that, if more people knew about *BSD, the popular opinion of free software and its quality might be very different.
P.S. automounter is great. It actually respects device node permissions!
Rudy
April 20th, 2012, 05:22
I ran a FreeBSD desktop for years, but ran into a series of issues about 4 years ago and switched my desktop to Ubuntu... I still run 'tcsh' as my shell, and most of my servers run FreeBSD. Frankly, I rarely look under the hood on a desktop -- they are more like disposable things that I want to set up real fast. Servers and network devices on the other hand... FreeBSD all the way!
If I have time, perhaps I'll try a BSD desktop again... someday...
Zare
April 20th, 2012, 08:57
No, FreeBSD would take off if you could stop people in these forums telling others it is a server software only. I stopped using it when I couldn't even get Gnome to automount a USB Stick and external HDDs. Yes, it needs to be easier to use for the masses.
That is why I personally still use DEBIAN and CENTOS. Ease of use and not wanting to remember 100's of commands to get something to work that I can do with a GUI. Nevermind the installer still sucks copy UBUNTU's.
No, it doesn't, because the "masses" are not target audience.
If you find it hard, stick to Debian/CentOS/Ubuntu or something else.
It's quite easy to set up system-based automounter via devd and some scripting (which can be found on this very forum).
OTOH, I agree about the installer (not that we need to copy Ubuntu, but it still lacks features).
mharvey87
May 28th, 2012, 08:39
At first I hated the new installer so much but now I love it. The only thing that bothers me is that you cant just hit 'a' to auto-partition the hard drive. I mean you can but it just creates a single '/' partition instead of separate ones for /usr, /var, and /tmp like the old installer did. Does any body know what's up with that?
Oh and GreanMeanie:
I stopped using it Thank god you got weeded out, so why are you still here whining?
when I couldn't even get Gnome to automount a USB Stick and external HDDs. Haha, you must be REALLY smart about computers. By any chance are you the guy they consulted when writing this CSI episode? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU
Pushrod
May 28th, 2012, 14:14
At first I hated the new installer so much but now I love it. The only thing that bothers me is that you cant just hit 'a' to auto-partition the hard drive. I mean you can but It just creates a single '/' partition instead of separate ones for /usr, /var, and /tmp like the old installer did. Does any body know what's up with that?
The FreeBSD team woke up to the fact that having all of those separate partitions is of little value on most systems. Those that disagree are free to do it themselves.
wblock@
May 28th, 2012, 14:48
Nathan Whitehead said it was to end the problem of people running out of space on /.
mharvey87
May 28th, 2012, 20:23
How does somebody run out of space on / if /usr, /var, and /tmp are separate partitions? With that setup nothing on / should ever change except for the settings in config files and updating the base system.
It's really annoying that considering the algorithm is so simple and was already in the installer's code that it was even removed. Now instead of 1 single button press I have to go through some tedious partition creator dialog. That is a step back not a step forward.
that having all of those separate partitions is of little value on most systems. If some attacker uses a botnet to flood your log files or database, or if a bug causes a process to enter an endless loop writing to disk, do you think it should be on the same partition as the OS?
I still think the new installer is perfect in every other way and this is kind of a minor flaw to me (the live shell and cleaner look more than make up for it). Still this feature should be added back in and I would be happy to write the patch myself is it was likely to be included.
wblock@
May 28th, 2012, 20:43
How does somebody run out of space on / if /usr, /var, and /tmp are separate partitions? With that setup nothing on / should ever change except for changing settings in config files and updating the base system.
True. But it's only recently that the base size for / was increased. Before then, building a new kernel could overfill that filesystem with symbol files. My hope is that pc-sysinstall will be integrated, because it does a lot of things the right way.
freebuser
May 29th, 2012, 02:35
It is interesting to see when you are in a linux forum you will come across Windows/Linux advantage/disadvantage arguments, and on *BSD forums it's Linux/*BSD Windows/*BSD argument.
For me, I think it is always good to have options, if you don't have options you are stuck with just 'one', whether it suits you or not.
I see *BSD as any other Linux distribution (like Debian/Ubuntu), but only with simplicity and consistency.
Again I like to see 'options' as everyone uses the computers in different ways for different things, not a single OS, I believe, will fullfil everyone's requirements.
Cheers,
Seeker
June 3rd, 2012, 12:40
How does somebody run out of space on / if /usr, /var, and /tmp are separate partitions? With that setup nothing on / should ever change except for the settings in config files and updating the base system.
What is the size of /? 0.5 GB (old) or 1 GB (new)? Do you know that the amd64 custom kernel with debug symbols takes ~320 MB? Now as GENERIC kernel is already in /, installation of a new custom kernel will fail for the 0.5 GB (old) case! In 1 GB (new) you can have at most two extra custom kernels! That is why I even further separate / and /boot, each on their own bsdlabel.
akil
June 3rd, 2012, 13:22
Great to hear.
FreeBSD 9 is great as a server, nevertheless, I use FreeBSD as desktop for a long time.
c_stjago
June 6th, 2012, 22:06
It's really annoying that considering the algorithm is so simple and was already in the installer's code that it was even removed. Now instead of 1 single button press I have to go through some tedious partition creator dialog. That is a step back not a step forward.
I for one would very much disagree. In all my computing years (both windows and *nix), I have never come across one partitioning algorithm that I liked. Systems are personal: partitioning your hard drive is personal and depends on the intended usage or the default in ones company. My default partitioning is not your default partitioning. So why bother making it so fancy in the installer?
At least with this move, which some linux distros also have taken, if you want a different partition layout, there's just the one to remove. In the old days, I had to remove /, /var, /tmp, /usr and for the more adventurous ones: /boot, /opt, /srv. So I for one, welcome simplicity.
SR_Ind
June 16th, 2012, 21:00
Default partitioning schema creating 4 or 5 partitions was useless. 4GB swap when I'm running a desktop with 4GB RAM?
However the downside with the FreeBSD 9's default partitioning is that with everything in one partition means system slowdown once disk fragmentation sets in.
jwele
August 17th, 2012, 17:58
I agree with the OP. This is simply the best release I have ever seen. I have been on and off using freebsd since 8.1. It seems that FreeBSD is getting wifi support faster and faster now to where my newish laptops have all drivers they need without porting winxp drivers over. I have always felt that FreeBSD philosophically was the OS for me but now it seems there is more to love about it than ever before. You know what they say, once you have tasted the best there is no room for the rest.
jwele
August 17th, 2012, 18:51
No, FreeBSD would take off if you could stop people in these forums telling others it is a server software only. I stopped using it when I couldn't even get Gnome to automount a USB Stick and external HDDs. Yes, it needs to be easier to use for the masses.
That is why I personally still use DEBIAN and CENTOS. Ease of use and not wanting to remember 100's of commands to get something to work that I can do with a GUI. Nevermind the installer still sucks copy UBUNTU's.
FreeBSD has and always will be a fantastic vanilla OS. Your right that its not solely server software. I believe that PC-BSD will be the one effort to gain the casual user and give FreeBSD a lot more attention.
nslay
August 18th, 2012, 01:38
True. But it's only recently that the base size for / was increased. Before then, building a new kernel could overfill that filesystem with symbol files. My hope is that pc-sysinstall will be integrated, because it does a lot of things the right way.
If you're building your own kernels, you're more than likely partitioning your system by hand anyway. This is only a barrier to new users wishing to expand their horizons by building their first kernel.
The old default was good enough for GENERIC by itself. However, I'm not sure if freebsd-update copies the current kernel to kernel.old like the usual procedure of building your own kernel. You would definitely run into problems updating the system if that were the case.
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