fluxbox vs openbox

[alie]

maybe this is stupid question :D

which one u choose ? and why ?

[alie]

i chose fluxbox because i dont need to install any panel, it has built in panel, wallpaper and tabbing :) for me openbox more basic than fluxbox.

[estrabd]

Isn't one based on the other...or were they both based on blackbox? I've been playing with dwm and xmonad - the former seems to suite me more than the latter, but they're minimal - albeit a different take on things.

[Oko]

Isn't one based on the other...or were they both based on blackbox? I've been playing with dwm and xmonad - the former seems to suite me more than the latter, but they're minimal - albeit a different take on things.

Yes, they are based on Blackbox but Openbox has been rewritten from the scratch in pure C unlike Fluxbox which is written in C++.That should be a deal breaker for any serious user. I used Openbox for a long time before switch to CWM (calm window manager) which is rewritten more or less from scratch by OpenBSD people.It is the part of OpenBSD base installation since OpenBSD 4.2. Original CWM (which can be found in FreeBSD ports) is very buggy and I would not recommend it over Openbox. Somebody
on this forum actually ported OpenBSD version of cwm to FreeBSD
but I didn't notice that it was committed.


If you like tiling Window managers I strongly recommend you looking at the scrotwm coming from OpenBSD kitchen. You can find
extensive discussion of scrotwm on the recent edition of OpenBSD journal http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20090218125342

I did experiment a lot with dwm and there were couple of very odd an annoying interactions with applications.
Xmonad as somebody stated on undeadly is just crippled by not being written in C.

I also like JWM which has built in panel, task bar and all other goodies. It uses only one X library so it is in memory footprint
just slightly bigger than dwm which is king of minimality.
JWM is part of Damn Small Linux and those people really know how to cherry pick good minimalistic application.


Going back to the issue of the panel for Openbox. There is one
specially written for it. You can find the link to it on Openbox website. One thing that I really dislike about Openbox is that
license has been changed to GPL. Original Blackbox and Fluxbox
have MIT license.
Lots of people complain about configuration files of Openbox being xml files. However crating menu is trivial using menu maker (no I didn't make mistake menu maker does it better than Obmenu). Also hand editing is trivial but I speak 6-7 mark up languages so I might be wrong about it.

[alie]

the problem is i am so picky with desktop or window manager. i've tried gnome2.22, gnome2.24, xfce and KDE. those desktop managers quite heavy for my old machine. i am looking for something that can replace those window managers and finding some good applications(file browser, web browser, music player, etc)

so i decided to choose between fluxbox or openbox.

anyway i have a lot of questions to this community:
1) is openbox and fluxbox still in active development ?
2) is JWM theme based Window manager ?
3) is there any window manager that can support plugin or applet ?
4) is there any good file browser that doesnt have a lot of dependencies(note: i like ROX filer) ?
5) is there any text editor like GEdit that doesnt have a lot of dependencies ?

i am still in learning mode. so i want learn and try everything from beginning. i already reformatted and installed FreeBSD more than 20+ times :D

[Oko]

so i decided to choose between fluxbox or openbox.

anyway i have a lot of questions to this community:
1) is openbox and fluxbox still in active development ?
2) is JWM theme based Window manager ?
3) is there any window manager that can support plugin or applet ?
4) is there any good file browser that doesnt have a lot of dependencies(note: i like ROX filer) ?
5) is there any text editor like GEdit that doesnt have a lot of dependencies ?



I think you made a good choice. Both Fluxbox and Openbox are in very active development and have a very large user base. They might be in too active development because they are slowly getting bloated. In my bias opinion Openbox is better;) What kind of answer could you expect from somebody who used Openbox for a very long time. Joking aside the big thing for Openbox is the fact that is coded in pure C. If you like to have panel, task bar and those things Fluxbox is probably better choice.
All those things can be added to Openbox but then you end up
installing another thing or two. For instance Openbox+Xfce panel is a killer combo for people who like more or less full desktop
environment.


Let me answer the rest of your questions

@2 JWM is not based on anything. It is written from the scratch.
It is really very, very good for people who like to have built in
task bar, pager, and the launching bar. It is incredible that all that is just little bit bigger than dwm which has 2000 lines of C code.

@3 What do you mean by that?

@4 Rox is not a browser. It is a file manager. There are three principle types of file managers.


i) Orthodox file managers (Norton commander type) Examples are
Deco, OFM, Midnight Commander,vifm (VI file manager) (console/xterm based) and Norther Commander, Worker, emelfm2, krusader and similar if you want to GUI.

ii) Navigational file managers (or explorer type) typical example is konqueror web-browser, xfm (X File Explorer).

iii) Spatial file managers. Examples include Xfm, Rox, PCmanFM, Desktop File Manager DFM, Nautilus file manager, Thunar, Xfiler the part of Siag suite and similar.

Then you have file managers that really could not be categorized easily like XTree file manager, Clex, pfm, (personal file manager), vfu, TkDesk.

I probably left out some interesting examples but you got the idea. The least bloated file manager is command line + commands
(ls, du, rm, mv, cp) and few filters. If you have to have a spatial file manager I really like ROX. For a Ortodox file managers I really like deco but it is not in active development and it is useless in console as it can not adjust the screen. OFM is very good code base for somebody who wants to write a good non bloated console based ortodox file manager.
Be aware that it is GPL so you will have to write everything from scratch if you prefer BSD license like me.




@5 Learn ed and vi pronto or you will regret very soon. I do NOT like VIM for me vi is nvi that comes with the base or Heirloom vi.

Emacs sucks IMHO and I have used it seriously. I even learned the Lisp because of it.

[scottro]

I sometimes go through switching back and forth between them, but for my needs, fluxbox is preferable. Basically, what I want from a window manager is the ability to open anything I want from keystrokes and be able to move windows around. I don't use tabs, or the slit. I also do like a taskbar, and while I realize Openbox was trying to do the Right Thing(TM) by getting rid of it, it seems that so many people wind up using a 3rd party one that it might not have been said Right Thing(TM). :)

As I'm not a programmer, I don't really care whether it was written in C or C++ nor what the language is. As I'm reasonably paid to run Unix systems, I think I can still consider myself a serious user, though I like to make jokes. :)

I also like a wee bit of eye candy, which is why I don't use weewm or evilwm, both of which fill my other needs.
At any rate for example, to move a window 50 pixels down, using the Windows key and j (a shortcut taken from the vi editor--as Oko says, learn it, especially if you plan to continue with Unix or Unixlike systems)

In fluxbox

Mod4 j :MoveDown 50

In openbox


<keybind key="W-j"
<action name="MoveRelative">
<y>50</y>
</action></keybind>

So, for me, with my preferences and needs, fluxbox is a better choice. You can easily try both and see which one strikes your fancy.

[scottro]

Oops, meant to say, don't care what the language or license is.

[alie]

thanks oko for ur gr8 and long reply, i really appreciate that. i am trying to use those applications

[roddierod]

4) is there any good file browser that doesnt have a lot of dependencies(note: i like ROX filer) ?
5) is there any text editor like GEdit that doesnt have a lot of dependencies ?


I used fluxbox for about 4 years as my window manager. About 3 years ago I switched to Openbox exclusively. I find Openbox to be faster and I think it looks better.

For reasons, i can't recall now I never liked fluxbox's panel and always used pypanel and I use that with Openbox now. Fbpanel is also another popular panel to use with Openbox. LXpanel is also light.

There is a Desktop called LXDE which uses Openbox as the window manager and attempts to be very light but have all the functions of a Desktop.

As for you questions:
4) I like Thunar, from the XFCE project. PCManFM is very light, but I've personally had problem with it crashing too much.

5) geany is pretty good.

[scottro]

Roddie's being modest and not mentioning that he supplied a nice little patch for pypanel.

The one that Oko mentioned, however (I'm guessing he's referring to tint) is quite nice and unobtrusive.

[roddierod]

Thanks for the plug, scottro! Haven't seen you in awhile.

My server is down right now due to mobo overheating so I didn't want to mention the patch...also not sure how many people actually use it.

I'm looking for a free or dirt cheap webhosting to mirror my site to. I re-wrote my website in python so that makes it a bit tougher to find one.

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

I used fluxbox for about 4 years as my window manager. About 3 years ago I switched to Openbox exclusively. I find Openbox to be faster and I think it looks better.

For reasons, i can't recall now I never liked fluxbox's panel and always used pypanel and I use that with Openbox now. Fbpanel is also another popular panel to use with Openbox. LXpanel is also light.

There is a Desktop called LXDE which uses Openbox as the window manager and attempts to be very light but have all the functions of a Desktop.

As for you questions:
4) I like Thunar, from the XFCE project. PCManFM is very light, but I've personally had problem with it crashing too much.

5) geany is pretty good.

I use dwm a lot these days, but sometimes when i need a change, always go back to fluxbox. And yes you are right about the default Fluxbox panel. Before I started theming fluxbox, I always used to think that the panel is one huge abomination! But after having some experience in theming, I always go back to Fluxbox when i need a change. I have used openbox a lot as well, but i still prefer fluxbox.

For anyone interested, you can find a few fluxbox screen of mine in Fluxbox Screenshots thread. I have also linked my latest fluxbox theme there!

[roddierod]

Speaking of themes, one thing that I hate are the Openbox .obt themes. They seem to be Linux specific. When I download one from box-look.org (http://www.box-look.org) I always get some error about invalid tar switches.

[alie]

how about web browser guys ? i tried dillo.. its very bad... doesnt support CSS :(

i'm trying JWM now.. its nice and better than fluxbox :D

[roddierod]

I like Opera been using it since version 5. It's lighter than firefox, but if your look for flash don't ask me about that :)

[alie]

@roddierod: lol, is Opera for FreeBSD under linux emulation?

[roddierod]

There is a native version:

/ports/www/opera

and a linux version

/ports/www/linux-opera

I use the bleeding edge /ports/www/opera-devel.

[meeb]

There are also Midori (GTK), Arora (QT4). As a fast but/and textbased alternative i like elinks.

[dh]

I tried to use fluxbox before openbox was forked, but for some reason I didn't like it at all (it was probably the fact that it had tabbed windows support or something silly like that). So back to blackbox it was at that time. After openbox forked I started to use it and have been ever since (there have been a few short jumps to WindowMaker, gnome/kde/sawfish/metacity/kwm).
Openbox's XML based configuration is very unfortunate, but it's not an issue anymore - I haven't touched the configuration much last couple of years (only minor menu changes).

[cpcnw]

I musing twm with wbar and xfe for file manager (it has image viewer and editor!)

Screenshot :-

http://81.174.174.115/twm/2009-03-07-1280x1024.png

[alie]

@cpcnw: can u share ur .conkyrc ? thanks

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

I musing twm with wbar and xfe for file manager (it has image viewer and editor!)

Screenshot :-

http://81.174.174.115/twm/2009-03-07-1280x1024.png

I second alie! Can you please post your .conkyrc and .twmrc please?

Edit: I didn't realize you were Graham! My bad! I visit your twm page quite often, its great for people like me who like twm, but never bothered to configure it! So it would be great to have your .conkyrc! and by the way nice to see another big fan of Groovesalad! its one of the best groove channels that's out there. i even have a somafm tshirt! have you listened to groovera by the way? i love Jet-City Lounge from groovera. But they are very strict when it comes to streamripping, thats my only gripe!

[lm8]

Just curious if anyone else has seen a difference in RAM usage between Fluxbox and Openbox. I've tried checking how much memory is being used with conky and when I'm running Fluxbox it seems like I'm not using as much as when I'm running Openbox (with no accessories like tint panel, etc). Found that a little surprising since Fluxbox appears to have a bit more functionality (built in panel). I found Openbox's menu easier to navigate (using a keyboard) than Fluxbox. I also noticed, last time I installed Fluxbox that redrawing the background, especially after a menu displayed, didn't look great all the time unless I had a program like feh installed. Don't think I had that issue with Openbox.

[estrabd]

I just wanted to report that I installed and tried both openbox and scrotwm. I like openbox a lot. I also like scrotwm a lot, but it seems to not really scratch the itch I have.

I think what I am looking for is a kind-of-tiling manager that blurs the lines between something like openbox/fluxbox, but easily allows me to enter into/out-of a tiling mode when so moved.

Does this make sense? I guess what makes me say this is that I use a tiling WM for a day or 2 (xmonad, dwm, now scrotwm), and inevitably I can't shake the feeling of being restricted - though I like not having to use the dang old mouse.

That said, I find it pleasing to work in a fully maximized screen session for hours on end - is the answer (for me, anyway) - a screen like approach?

Thanks for reading my ramblings :)

[lm8]

I think what I am looking for is a kind-of-tiling manager that blurs the lines between something like openbox/fluxbox, but easily allows me to enter into/out-of a tiling mode when so moved.

Although this is a bit off topic for an openbox/fluxbox comparison thread, I was testing out dwm as well as openbox and fluxbox. It may be more like what you're looking for. It has tiled, floating and a monocle mode when you want one application full screen. You can see http://dwm.suckless.org/ for details. Is there a thread in this section for dwm? Seems like there's a lot to setting up properly and a lot you can do with it once it is set up to your liking.

[BSDRich]

I tried to install open box today. The docs say to edit ~/.config/menu.xml or if that doesn't exist, /etc/xdg/openbox/menu.xml. I don't have either of those. What gives? At first I had a right-click menu then I minimized all windows and had nothing but a black desktop and mouse cursor that now did nothing when I clicked. I had to reboot. Fluxbox is the only one that's ever worked for me and I've tried several. Any hints how I can get openbox working?

[roddierod]

/usr/local/etc/xdg/openbox/menu.xml is where the default menus is. The docs are Linux based and you should recall that FreeBSD install software to /usr/local/ so you should look there.

OpenBox by default has no background or panels so all you will see is a black background and mouse cursor.

You did not need to reboot, all you have to do was kill X, CRTL-ALT-TAB. But, I'm not sure what you error was to make the menu disappear.

[BSDRich]

Ok, got it thanks. But editing the menu is more difficult than fluxbox. I don't mean because it's xml. I mean that it seems you have to put all your items in submenues. I want things at the root of the menu so I don't always have to remember which sub menu they're in. I also don't want to have to do extra clicks to get to them. How do you make an app appear at the root level of the menu?

[roddierod]

You don't have to everything in submenus, if you go to the section root-menu section, something like below:


<menu id="root-menu" label="Openbox 3">

<item label="Thunar">
<action name="Execute">
<command>thunar</command>
</action>
</item>

</menu>


This would put Thunar at the root menu level.

[BSDRich]

Great, I'm getting it going but when I minimize a window it disappears. How do you get it back? Also Ctrl+Alt+Tab isn't doing anything. If I minimize all windows I'm stuck. I think there may be a toolbar down below my screen that I can't see. My screen size may be wrong, where can I configure that?

[roddierod]

There is no default panel with Openbox. You'll have to install your own such as pypanel, fbpanel etc.

You may want to look at this Key Bindings (http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/Help:Actions#Introduction)

[BSDRich]

I'm giving up on openbox. Too much hassle and can't get it working. Fluxbox is way better. The menu is easy to configure, just one simple text line no xml. It can minimize and maximize windows. You can change theme colors real easy right from the main right click menu. I can't get openbox to set the background either using feh. fbsetbg works fine in fluxbox. Fluxbox is still the winner to me. Has never failed me and is easy to configure and best of all, It works!

[BSDRich]

maybe this is stupid question

which one u choose ? and why ?


Here's a novel idea, why don't you install them both and see which one you like the best.

[lm8]

Great, I'm getting it going but when I minimize a window it disappears. How do you get it back?

In Openbox, you should be able to Alt-Tab to any Window and have it cycle through your windows. If it's minimized, Alt-Tab will usually restore to normal size. Personally, I like the Alt-Tab feature better than having a panel in a window manager, but that's just my preference.

I usually set up a similar key combination in Fluxbox, but it doesn't seem to cycle through the windows quite as well as Openbox.

[hedwards]

how about web browser guys ? i tried dillo.. its very bad... doesnt support CSS :(

i'm trying JWM now.. its nice and better than fluxbox :D
I use Firefox 3.5 and tend to have few problems. Opera was working fairly well last time I messed around with it as well. There are a few other possibilities, but personally I tend to stick with one of the more common browsers just because.

As for text editors, I'd definitely agree that any time spent learning to use vi is going to be paid back in no time flat. It's just that good.

[MG]

Anyone knows how to start a program with specified window placement and/or geometry in Openbox?

I tried to do it with devilspie but that results in this error:
(devilspie:45976): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE

[cpcnw]

I second alie! Can you please post your .conkyrc and .twmrc please?



Sorry missed this altogether. Will post when get chance. In meantime my page is at :-

http://212.159.115.167/twm/

[cpcnw]

As requested a whlie ago - my .twmrc


#*********************************
# GENERAL SETTINGS
#*********************************
AutoRelativeResize # No cross of window edge needed for resize
DecorateTransients # Also decorate transient windows
NoBackingStore # Minimize repainting of menus
NoCaseSensitive # Case ignoring for icon manager
NoDefaults # No default title buttons, we will define them
NoGrabServer # Do not grab the server when not needed
NoHighLight # Dont change border of windows on mouse over
NoTitleHighlight # No highlight for titlebar of selected window
#OpaqueMove # Move window instead of outline
RandomPlacement # Windows without geometry are placed randomly
RestartPreviousState # Try to restart defaults from last x session
UsePPosition "on" # Honor placement
NoIconManagers # No icon manager is showed
IconifyByUnMapping # Dont try to map any icons?
NoDefaults # Don't use WM default icons and bindings
# DontMoveOff # Windows arent allowed to move outside the screen

#*********************************
# WINDOW BORDERS ETC
#*********************************
BorderWidth 1 # Number of pixels for entire window border
FramePadding 1 # Number of pixels between titlebar buttons and frame
MenuBorderWidth 1 # Number of pixels for menu border
#NoMenuShadows # No shadow behind the menu
TitleButtonBorderWidth 0 # Number of pixels for button border
ButtonIndent 0 # Larger seems to squash buttons together
TitlePadding 2 # Number of pixels around title buttons

#*********************************
# TITLE BAR BUTTONS
#*********************************
IconDirectory "/home/admin/.twm/icons" # Directory for non default icons
LeftTitleButton "resize.xbm"=f.resize
RightTitleButton "minimize.xbm"=f.iconify
RightTitleButton "maximize.xbm"=f.fullzoom
RightTitleButton "close.xbm"=f.delete

#*********************************
# COLOR SETTINGS
#*********************************


Color
{
BorderColor "#101F48"
DefaultBackground "#D6D6D6"
DefaultForeground "#303730"

TitleBackground "#2F579F"
TitleForeground "#FFFFFF"

MenuTitleBackground "#2F579F"
MenuTitleForeground "#FFFFFF"

#MenuBackground "#D6D6D6"
MenuBackground "#F8F8F8"
#MenuForeground "#303730"
MenuForeground "#696969"

MenuBorderColor "#D6D6D6"
MenuShadowColor "#303730"

PointerForeground "Black"
PointerBackground "White"
}



#Color
#{
#BorderColor "grey10"
#DefaultBackground "#D6D6D6"
#DefaultForeground "#000000"

#TitleBackground "RoyalBlue4"
#TitleForeground "White"

#MenuTitleBackground "RoyalBlue4"
#MenuTitleForeground "White"

#MenuBackground "#D6D6D6"
#MenuForeground "#414D5B"

#MenuShadowColor "#000000"
#MenuBorderColor "grey10"
#}


#*********************************
# FONT SETTINGS
#*********************************
TitleFont "-dec-terminal-medium-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*"
ResizeFont "-dec-terminal-medium-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*"
MenuFont "-dec-terminal-medium-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*"
ResizeFont "-dec-terminal-medium-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*"

#*********************************
# CURSOR SETTINGS
#*********************************
Cursors
{
Frame "top_left_arrow"
Title "top_left_arrow"
Icon "top_left_arrow"
IconMgr "top_left_arrow"
Move "fleur"
Resize "fleur"
Menu "top_left_arrow"
Button "top_left_arrow"
Wait "trek"
Select "dot"
Destroy "pirate"
}
#*********************************
# NO TITLE BAR SETTINGS
#*********************************
NoTitle
{
"conky"
"xclock"
"aterm"
"asclock"
}

#*********************************
# AUTORAISE WINDOWS
#*********************************
Autoraise
{
# "xterm"
#"rxvt"
# "Eterm"
}

#************************************************* *
# CURSOR TO WINDOW ON DE-ICONIFY
#************************************************* *
WarpCursor
{
"xterm"
}

#************************************************* ************
# MOUSE SETTINGS AND WINDOW BEHAVIOURS
#************************************************* ************
# Button1=left, Button2=middle, Button3=right, m=alt, c=ctrl, s=shift

# The root window actions i.e. clicking on the backgound
Button1 = : root : f.menu "RootMenu"
Button2 = : root : f.menu "System"
# Button2 = : window : f.circleup
Button3 = : root : f.menu "TwmWindows"

# Left click the window title to lower / raise + gain focus or move
Movedelta 1
Button1= :title: f.function "raise-lower-move"
Function "raise-lower-move" { f.move f.raiselower }

# Middle click the window title for options for individual windows
Button2 = : title|frame : f.menu "WindowMenu"

# Right click window title to resize the window by mousing beyond frame
Button3 = : title|frame : f.resize

# Hold alt key and left click to move entire window
Button1 = m : window : f.move

# Hold shift key and right click / move to resize. Best near edges than window centre.
Button3 = s : window : f.resize

# Hold Alt and Tab cycles through windows bringing up focus
Function "winup" { f.circleup }
"Tab" = m : root|window|frame|title : f.function "winup"

# Hold Alt plus left click window title to maximize window vertically
Button1 = m : title|frame : f.zoom

# Hold Alt plus right click window title to maximize window vertically
Button3 = m : title|frame : f.horizoom

DefaultFunction f.nop

#*********************************
# THE POPUP MENU
#*********************************

menu "RootMenu"
{
"FreeBSD" f.title
"Editor" !"xfw &"
"Fileman" !"xfe &"
"Terminal" !"xterm &"
"Internet" f.menu "Internet"
"MultiMedia" f.menu "Multimedia"
"Graphics" f.menu "Graphics"
"Utilities" f.menu "Utils"
"Restart"f.restart
"Quit"f.quit
}

menu "System"
{
"System" f.title
"To Desktop 1"!"vdesk 1 &"
"To Desktop 2"!"vdesk 2 &"
"To Desktop 3"!"vdesk 3 &"
"To Desktop 4"!"vdesk 4 &"
"Reread .twmrc " f.twmrc
"End Task" f.exec "xkill &"
}

menu "WindowMenu"
{
"Window Ops " f.title
"Vertical*beep* *beep* *beep* " f.zoom
"Horizontal*beep* *beep* " f.horizoom
"Left*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep* *beep* " f.leftzoom
"Right*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep* *beep*" f.rightzoom
"Top*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep* *beep* *beep*" f.topzoom
"Bottom*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep* " f.bottomzoom
"AutoRaise " f.autoraise
"Refresh " f.refresh
"Kill " f.destroy
}

menu "Internet"
{
"Internet" f.title
"Opera Browser" !"opera &"
"Links Browser" !"links -driver x http://www.google.com &"
"IMRC Client" !"xterm -e centerim &"
"FTP Client" !"xterm -fg grey -bg black -geometry 140x40+200+200 -e mc /#ftp:username@ftp.isp.com &"
"SSH Client" !"xterm -fg grey -bg black -geometry 140x40+200+200 -e mc /#sh:root@192.168.1.10 &"
}

menu "Multimedia"
{
"Multimedia" f.title
"Audio Stream" f.menu "Stream"
"Groove Salad" !"xterm -e mp3blaster http://streamer-ntc-aa01.somafm.com:80/stream/1018 &"
"Swiss Groove" !"xterm -e mp3blaster http://swiss1.impek.tv:80 &"
"Play DVD" !"/usr/local/bin/mplayer dvd:// &"
"Play MP3" !"xterm -fn fixed -e mp3blaster &"
"Play CD" !"cdcontrol -f /dev/acd1 play &"
"Stop CD" !"cdcontrol -f /dev/acd1 stop &"
"Audio Mixer" !"xterm -geometry 80x20+300+300 -e nmixer &"
}

menu "Stream"
{
"Audio Streams" f.title
"Rip Groove Salad" !"xterm -e streamripper http://streamer-ntc-aa01.somafm.com:80/stream/1018 -r -d ~/mp3 -s &"
"Rip Swiss Groove" !"xterm -e streamripper http://swiss1.impek.tv:80 -r -d ~/mp3 -s &"
"Listen to Rip" !"xterm -e mp3blaster http://localhost:8000 &"
}

menu "Utils"
{
"Utils" f.title
"Top Ps "!"xterm -fg grey -bg black -e top &"
"PDF Docs" !"xpdf &"
"Manual " !"xman &"
"Calendar "!"xcalendar &"
"Calculator" !"xcalc &"
"Clipboard" !"xclipboard &"
"LCD Off" !"xset -display 0:0 dpms force off &"
}

menu "Graphics"
{
"Graphics" f.title
"XvEdit" !"xv &"
"Xpaint" !"xpaint &"
"Sshot!" !"xterm -bg black -fg grey -e scrot -d 5 -c -e 'mv $f /usr/home/admin/' &"
"Magnify " !"xmag &"
"ColorSel "!"xcolorsel &"
"Xfont" !"xfontsel &"
}

[cpcnw]

Also, my .conkyrc

# Conky sample configuration
#
# the list of variables has been removed from this file in favour
# of keeping the documentation more maintainable.
# Check http://conky.sf.net for an up-to-date-list.

# set to yes if you want Conky to be forked in the background
background yes

# X font when Xft is disabled, you can pick one with program xfontsel
#font 5x7
#font 6x10
#font 7x13
#font 8x13
#font 9x15
#font *mintsmild.se*
#font -*-*-*-*-*-*-34-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

# Use Xft?
use_xft yes

# Xft font when Xft is enabled
xftfont mono:size=8

# Text alpha when using Xft
xftalpha 0.8

# Print everything to stdout?
# out_to_console no

# MPD host/port
# mpd_host localhost
# mpd_port 6600
# mpd_password tinker_bell

# Print everything to console?
# out_to_console no

# mail spool
# mail_spool $MAIL

# Update interval in seconds
update_interval 5.0

# This is the number of times Conky will update before quitting.
# Set to zero to run forever.
total_run_times 0

# Create own window instead of using desktop (required in nautilus)
own_window no

# If own_window is yes, you may use type normal, desktop or override
own_window_type normal

# Use pseudo transparency with own_window?
own_window_transparent yes

# If own_window_transparent is set to no, you can set the background colour here
# own_window_colour hotpink

# If own_window is yes, these window manager hints may be used
own_window_hints undecorated,sticky,skip_taskbar,skip_pager

# Use double buffering (reduces flicker, may not work for everyone)
double_buffer yes

# Minimum size of text area
minimum_size 1280 0

# Draw shades?
draw_shades no

# Draw outlines?
draw_outline no

# Draw borders around text
draw_borders no

# Draw borders around graphs
draw_graph_borders yes

# Stippled borders?
# stippled_borders 8

# border margins
border_margin 1

# border width
border_width 1

# Default colors and also border colors
# default_color white
# default_shade_color black
# default_outline_color black

default_color grey
# own_window_colour 324553
# own_window_colour 455B69

# Text alignment, other possible values are commented
alignment top_left
#alignment top_right
#alignment bottom_left
#alignment bottom_right
#alignment none

# Gap between borders of screen and text
# same thing as passing -x at command line
gap_x 2
gap_y 2

# Subtract file system buffers from used memory?
no_buffers yes

# set to yes if you want all text to be in uppercase
uppercase no

# number of cpu samples to average
# set to 1 to disable averaging
cpu_avg_samples 2

# number of net samples to average
# set to 1 to disable averaging
net_avg_samples 2

# Force UTF8? note that UTF8 support required XFT
override_utf8_locale no

# Add spaces to keep things from moving about? This only affects certain objects.
use_spacer none

# Allow each port monitor to track at most this many connections (if 0 or not set, default is 256)
#max_port_monitor_connections 256

# Maximum number of special things, e.g. fonts, offsets, aligns, etc.
#max_specials 512

# Maximum size of buffer for user text, i.e. below TEXT line.
#max_user_text 16384

# variable is given either in format $variable or in ${variable}. Latter
# allows characters right after the variable and must be used in network
# stuff because of an argument
# stuff after 'TEXT' will be formatted on screen

TEXT
${color}$sysname $kernel-$machine ${color}Up: ${color FFFFFF}$uptime ${color}Proc: ${color FFFFFF}$processes ${color}Active: ${color FFFFFF}$running_processes ${color}Cpu: ${color FFFFFF}${cpu}% ${color}${cpugraph 8,40 c0c0c0 dddddd} ${color}Mem: ${color FFFFFF}$mem $memperc% ${color}${membar 8,40} ${color}Net In: ${color FFFFFF}${downspeed dc0} Kb/s ${color}${downspeedgraph dc0 8,40 c0c0c0 dddddd} ${color FFFFFF}${color}Net Out: ${color FFFFFF}${upspeed dc0} Kb/s ${color}${upspeedgraph dc0 8,40 c0c0c0 dddddd} ${color}Total In: ${color FFFFFF}${totaldown dc0} ${color}Total Out: ${color FFFFFF}${totalup dc0} ${color}Time: ${color FFFFFF}${time %k:%M}${color} Date: ${color FFFFFF}${time %d-%m-%y}

[expl]

I'm giving up on openbox. Too much hassle and can't get it working. Fluxbox is way better. The menu is easy to configure, just one simple text line no xml. It can minimize and maximize windows. You can change theme colors real easy right from the main right click menu. I can't get openbox to set the background either using feh. fbsetbg works fine in fluxbox. Fluxbox is still the winner to me. Has never failed me and is easy to configure and best of all, It works!

Fluxbox is a complete desktop manager package, openbox is just a windows manager handling windows and their decorations. If you find XML difficult to manage there is app that comes with openbox called "obconf" a GTK gui application to easily manipulate your configs and change themes on the fly, how ever it has been segfaulting for me on amd64 and I havent checked status of this issue for a while.. they could have fixed it by now. To change background 'esetroot' works best with openbox (comes with eterm) as it supports pseudo transparency.

[graudeejs]

Fluxbox is a complete desktop manager package, openbox is just a windows manager handling windows and their decorations. If you find XML difficult to manage there is app that comes with openbox called "obconf" a GTK gui application to easily manipulate your configs and change themes on the fly, how ever it has been segfaulting for me on amd64 and I havent checked status of this issue for a while.. they could have fixed it by now. To change background 'esetroot' works best with openbox (comes with eterm) as it supports pseudo transparency.

Have you tried graphics/hsetroot? Works flawlessly for me, and no need to compile eterm :D

[expl]

Have you tried graphics/hsetroot? Works flawlessly for me, and no need to compile eterm :D

I just recently switched from Eterm to mrxvt due to tabs and I used Eterm/esetroot for ages before, haven´t tried anything else but I supose there are quite a few applications that can do a proper job at wallpaper change.

[graudeejs]

From all that I've tried, this one is the best

[sk8harddiefast]

If i should choose openbox or fluxbox,i would choose fluxbox.
But dwm is the best window manager for me!!!!
there is no dependencies & is veeeery fast :)
Just you download the source,make the changes,compile the source and finished :)

[vermaden]

About differences between openbox and fluxbox ... and pekwm.

WINDOW SWITCHING BEHAVIOUR
Proper 'ALT-TAB' behaviour is only available on fluxbox and openbox, pekwm lacks a lot here, check this for more information: http://pekwm.org/projects/pekwm/tasks/210

While fluxbox switches between windows instantly, openbox/pekwm can show list of windows while switching and openbox can also show black/white border for every window (like metacity).

WORKSPACE MENU
The so-called workspace menu in fluxbox expands into submenu for each workspace, which makes its useless for generall usage.

Both pekwm/openbox provide here workspace menu that shows all apps on all workspaces isntantly, but only openbox can render all application icons properly here.

PROPER ICON RENDERRING
Both pekwm/fluxbox cannot render application icons properly, while openbox can, fluxbox renders properly icons in the root menu, but only if you select exact size for the icon (same as actual image size), if image is bigger, its scaled version would be ugly.

WORKING AREA
At both openbox/pekwm we can set margins for the workspace, the space on the sides which will NOT be used for windows, to achieve the same on fluxbox, you can only use dome dockapp with displaying transparent PNG file (dirty hack) with do not maximize over slit option.

ACTIONS ON WINDOW BAR/BORDER
At pekwm/openbox we can define various actions that will happen when clicking/scrolling the window border/bar, some custom commands (like transparency increasing/decresing with transset-df), fluxbox can not offer that

STANDARDS
Both pekwm/fluxbox are NOT fully compilant with NETWM/EMWH while openbox is (but I never suffered from the fact that they arent fully compilant).

LANGUAGE (as curiosity)
Both pekwm/fluxbox are written in C++ while openbox is written in C, which make it little faster, but its propably hard to notice this on Core 2 Duo class machines these days.

OTHER
Both pekwm/fluxbox support tabs, but I do not remember when I last used them ;)
From these two fluxbox also offers taskbar, but being frank with you, I must say that having so nice workspace menu on openbox I do not need taskbar any more.

COMMAND SUBSHELL
If you put something like that into fluxbox root menu feh --bg-scale $( cat ~/.fehbg | cut -d ' ' -f 3 ), then fluxbox will execute that without any problems, while openbox will throw an error (havent checked for pekwm), same for ` ... `

... my thoughts on differences between these 3 WMs.

[NicoLaan]

That's why I use lxde-meta, it uses openbox with some lx.... extra's like a panel.